School me on Braided flex line

[Timmy390]

So I'm trying to round up all the parts for my EFI fuel system to feed the 351W I just dropped in and have read till my eyes bleed and have confused myself to the point I need real world help. Had planed on using the lines form the donor van but that's not going to work.

I plan to run braided from pump to filter then hard lines from filter to up front then braided to the fuel rail (my feed and return are in the rear).

Looking around I see braided line all over but very very few of then state if they're EFI rated or not. For example, JEGS Pro-Flo 200 Series Stainless Steel Braided Hose. States it's rated for fuel but not if it's ok for EFI.

So is all braided fuel line the same? Is it all EFI compatible? What should I stay away from?

Tim

 

[Toddpole]

You're efi system requires approximately 40-60psi. Most efi rated fuel hose will have a pressure rating of around 300psi. Be sure it will handle the pressure and is rated for gasoline. Not all hose can handle fuel. The aromatics deteriorate it.

 

[JWMcCrary]

When I was buying hose it all had a maximum pressure listed but I was on Summits website. I used Earls Pro Lite hose which had a 350 psi max. I would think anything rated for more than 100 psi should be good but I would let others confirm that.

 

[Timmy390]

I was out on Summits site looking and I was looking at "kits" which came with fitting. I searched and found this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-230610 which appears to be what I need or I hope anyway.

Tim

 

[cldonley]

If you're interested in building your own, take a look a Aircraft Spruce. They sell braided line with all the fittings and the tools to put them together and you may be able to save a few $. You get aircraft quality stuff rated for gasoline (100 octane leaded!) and they aren't rocket science to build.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aq601.php
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/ap/hose_0aeroquip/aqmandrel2.php
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aq491.php?clickkey=2849042

I've built many of these lines for airplanes and they are still flying, I think. And they're rated for 1000psi.

 

[hyghlndr]

If you're interested in building your own, take a look a Aircraft Spruce. They sell braided line with all the fittings and the tools to put them together and you may be able to save a few $. You get aircraft quality stuff rated for gasoline (100 octane leaded!) and they aren't rocket science to build.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aq601.php
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/ap/hose_0aeroquip/aqmandrel2.php
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/aq491.php?clickkey=2849042

I've built many of these lines for airplanes and they are still flying, I think. And they're rated for 1000psi.

Waste of money for using on a normal car, just go to Jegs, Summit or Speedway motors to find everything.

 

[cldonley]

Waste of money for using on a normal car, just go to Jegs, Summit or Speedway motors to find everything.

I'm thinkin' if you do the math it'll be cheaper.

 

[bronconut73]

Aeroquip and Earls are the only ones I trust anymore.

Just pick a brand then stay with it. At least with the two names above you know that either one will have any fitting imaginable for your situation.

 

[Viperwolf1]

Aeroquip teflon. It's good for power steering pressures too.

 

[Timmy390]

Aeroquip and Earls are the only ones I trust anymore.

Just pick a brand then stay with it. At least with the two names above you know that either one will have any fitting imaginable for your situation.

Fittings..Oh man....I have to dig into that to. I've never dealt with AN's for anything. Think I know what I need just trying to find them all. Think I need between 18 and 24 total for supply and return. It adds up quick.

Tim

 

[toddz69]

Aeroquip teflon. It's good for power steering pressures too.

This. Use PTFE (teflon) lined lines to handle all manner of today's fuels.

Todd Z.

 

[sykanr0ng]

Fittings..Oh man....I have to dig into that to. I've never dealt with AN's for anything. Think I know what I need just trying to find them all. Think I need between 18 and 24 total for supply and return. It adds up quick.

Tim

This may help you:

http://www.valvers.com/engineering/an-and-jic-fittings/

 

[Timmy390]

Wow, you can't use standard AN fitting on the PTFE line. It's requires specific PTFE fittings. Summit Notes: Requires PTFE fittings.

Tim

 

[Viperwolf1]

Wow, you can't use standard AN fitting on the PTFE line. It's requires specific PTFE fittings. Summit Notes: Requires PTFE fittings.

Tim

They are steel, reusable fittings. Aluminum fittings are one time use. A drawback to the steel fittings is they are only available in straight, 45 and 90 degrees.

An easy way to transition from the hose to a hard line is to use a tube adapter like this: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-2200077n These are aluminum, single use but they are fine at EFI pressures.

 

[ntsqd]

I flare the tube after sliding on a tube nut and sleeve. Then a bulkhead union passed thru a tab of some sort not only makes the jump from tube to hose, it also anchors the end of the tube so that you aren't flexing or vibrating a hard line.

Modern "emissions barrier" fuel hose (EFI rated or not) has a liner that looks like it could be teflon or polyethylene. Regular rubber lined braided SS hose probably isn't a long-lived item when used with current formula 'gasoline'. Going with the teflon lined hose is a good call.

Earl's used to be a really good name in hose and fittings, then Mr. Gasket bought them. Now I don't know. I'd rather use Russell, which used to be not so great, but then Edelbrock bought them and their quality has gotten better. XRP is another brand that I'll use too.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Not all braided line is the same. And not all fittings are the same either. Use the wrong fitting for the hose and it will blow off spewing fluid everywhere. The best known example I know of this is Roadkill crusher camero engine swap episode. They used random AN fittings on random AN hose and blew a trans cooler line.

I would recommend avoiding braided hose for fuel lines. Modern rubber (emissions barrier hose mentioned above) is really good stuff. Doesn't require a paychecks worth of special fittings to make it work. Can be fixed, modified, adapted with most any trail repair kit or in any parts store parking lot. Get a rock to fubar a braided line with AN fittings on the trail, you are hosed unless you have the correct AN parts to fix it. Rubber hose is cutable and splicable in less than ideal conditions.

If you're dream really is braided line regardless of the downfalls of it. Once you find the hose you want to use, get only that hose (don't mix with other stuff you may have or can find) and only use the fittings specific to that brand AND series of hose.

 

[ntsqd]

The difference between the common rubber lined braided stainless hose and the teflon lined braid stainless hose needs to be emphasized. I doubt the rubber lined hose is good for more than 5 years when used with today's fuel. The teflon lined will shrug that off no sweat.

The downside to the teflon lined is cost. It is a lot more expensive for both the hose and the fittings. It is also easier to kink, which could be an issue on the trail. Before that scares you away consider how many people use braided stainless brake hoses. Those hoses are only ever the teflon lined because of the pressure involved in the brake system. While it does happen, I don't see a lot of failed stainless brake hoses due to trail situations, and those are a whole lot more exposed than a fuel system hose should be.

That all said, I'm not using braided stainless either. I am using the EFI rated emissions barrier hose on Push-Lock/Barb-tite AN hose ends and I have gone out of my way to not use steel fittings if at all possible. Current fuel has alcohol in it and that means water to rust steel fittings. Yeah, they're plated, don't think that buys you much because in my experience in using those fittings on an R&D dyno it sure didn't buy us much.
I have come to despise hose clamps and use them on hoses only when there is no other reasonable solution. These hose ends, without any sort of clamp, are rated for more pressure than the hose itself is. By easily carrying a piece of this hose that is longer than my longest section on the vehicle I can easily make field repairs. You have to cut the hose off the hose ends, and that requires extreme care to not nick the barbs on the hose end. BTW, do not think that by putting clamps on these hose ends that you're doing yourself a favor. Doing so is shooting yourself in the foot. Clamps cause the barbs to cut through the hose's inner layer and exposes parts of the hose to the fluid that were never intended to be exposed to it. Don't do it!
Such hose/hose end assemblies look like this:

This hose is not recommended for these fittings, so I won't recommend it either. However I will say that my DD car has been running the EFI rated barrier hose on these fittings for almost two years. No issues, and that includes the hose ends that suspend the fuel pump. It has no other mounting! It is dead quiet too. The Bronc-up (as seen above) has also had this hose on those hose ends for over a year, but it hasn't been driven much so I'm not sure that experience counts for much yet.

 

[Timmy390]

WOW I didn't realize the "push on" were able to be used with fuel line. I've used them in the past for air which has much higher pressures but never thought about them on fuel lines. I moved away from using rubber lines because I kept reading about people saying how bad it was to use "clamps" when dealing with EFI pressures and how it was a rig waiting to burn down. I do not want this rig to burn after all the work I've put into it over the past 5 months.

I'm a carburetor guy living in a EFI world.....

I think I'll look into using those push on connectors. What connectors did you use at the fuel rails?

Tim

 

[ntsqd]

Bear in mind that Gates says something to the effect of "we've not tried this fitting type with this hose so we don't know how it will workout" & recommend against it. So I'm not recommending it either. I'm only saying this is what I've done and the results of the testing that I've done so far. I do not have what it would take to do a safe pressure test of the assembly. Which is a test that I'd like to do when I figure out a safe way to do it. The hanging fuel pump is a deliberate test and NOT something that I would do with an off-pavement vehicle. That said, the emission barrier hose fits onto those fittings like it was designed for it.

EFI for the Bronco is still in the parts & info gathering phase. I did buy some of the Ford to AN adapter fittings from Summit. I've color coded Blue/Red ano'd fittings as the supply and black ano'd fittings as the return.

 

[LoneRanger]

Holy confusing fuel line reading batman! If I do decide to go efi before superCel, I need to have this part of things worked out. Keep this thread going!!!

L.R.