Single vs dual shocks

[68ford]

EB vendors go about it all wrong with the dual rate springs. A shock with correct valving during the "soft" part, will not be enough shock to control rebound when the stiff section is compressed.
The opposite is the ideal world. Constant spring rate or close to and variable valving in a shock(bypass) shock. Shock get stiffer and stiffer as it compresses to keep it from bottoming out. Shock is also stiffer on the rebound side when fully compressed. This let's it comtrol the spring and not bounce but as the suspension droops or unloads the valving gets softer to let it droop faster as the spring pressure becomes less.

Basically let's you not bottom out or bounce back when you hit big stuff. Also letting you go over whoops and maintain a suspended non moving vehicle and only the tires and suspension go up and down really fast.

 

[Boss Hugg]

I know I've seen some of the info in your build, but what shocks are you running, and what are your valving numbers? Just so we're all on the same page.

My setup is about to change. The WH crew will be delivering a set of springs to LEBC roundup that will in a roundabout way will put me with some 3.5 deaver leafs. I can't remember it they'll be the MD or HD, but I can adjust with a spare tire and tool box or something. I run the "hard safari top" that I "built" (actually it's more like I destroyed it) last summer. I have a pair of 3.5 duff variable coils. I plan on doing the f250 front mount like Garberz. I might HAVE to (Darn it!) put the hidden winch in a homemade bumper on the front. And on the rear i'm going to stretch some '90 F250 rear mounts(separate thread for that when it happens) to mount like the outside-the-frame dual mounts (shock jock). Except I'm staying single. (Married really, but when she sees how much I'm spending on the bronco this year....????)

I was planning to take my time and do this over July 4 week while the wife is out of town on a school trip, but now I have people pressuring me to hit Hot Springs in June... And I have a friends big bronco to get running too, so that he might join us on that trip.

 

[68ford]

https://youtu.be/s-pmoakepqo

https://youtu.be/U9qZRP9oApQ

Same truck 2 very different scenarios

 

[swmrdrn]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10213690329846792&id=1661302909

I'm impressed! That looks great. I would love some photos and details on how you set that up.

 

[68ford]

These are what guys need to be running.

https://youtu.be/gO1Ev3fUB0M

 

[DirtDonk]

And these cost how much?

I mean, they don't look as expensive as some, but they're still pretty fancy, so am curious if these are in the $150-250 ea range, or more into the $500+ range.

Paul

 

[68ford]

And these cost how much?

I mean, they don't look as expensive as some, but they're still pretty fancy, so am curious if these are in the $150-250 ea range, or more into the $500+ range.

Paul

Could not find an exact price. A 2.5 coilover IBP is 200 more than just coilovers. Som100 per shock. That would make a 2.5 smooth IBP be around 300 to 350 each.
Could be worse, buddy just 4.5x18 8 tube bypass with finned reservoir. They were almost 3000 each.

 

[ntsqd]

That's what it takes to really go fast in the dez, but not what it takes to have a smooth ride down to the corner store for some donuts. um, donuts......

5100's can be bought with valving in them intended for two dampers per wheel. Not that this is what the OP asked for, just thought it should be mentioned.

Looks like Bilstein has changed the shaft speed that they rate their valving at or have changed how they are reporting them. New numbers are totally different from their old numbers. argh!
In old numbers 360/80 was the off-the-shelf coil spring valving. 400/100 is the upper limit for what the 14mm shaft in a 5100 or 7100 can handle. Can go beyond if the shaft speeds never get very fast. If the shaft speeds are fast enough I'm sure that 360/80 can be made to bend them. If something under 400/100 isn't enough for the front then a damper with a larger OD shaft needs to be sought out. Fox has a 5/8" shaft in their 2.0" body and Lee @ Raceshocks.com has a valve stack for these known to work well on the front of an EB.

 

[68ford]

That was an example of how vaiable valving can let suspension be soft when it needs to and yet stiff when needs to.
But speaking of just going down to the store, the phrase "rides like a caddy" comes to mind. When you think smooth, people think of high end luxury cars. Think of a big Cadillac from the 60s, heavy, soft springs, likely soft shocks. Things rode like they were floating on air.

 

[Boss Hugg]

Things rode like they were floating on air.

They were also 4 miles long so there was more time between suspension parts hitting bumps... Not sure how to explain this better, but I think ya'll know what I'm saying. My CC LWB Super duty rides a lot smoother than my wifes escape....

 

[ntsqd]

And were slightly under-damped on purpose.

 

[68ford]

They were also 4 miles long so there was more time between suspension parts hitting them... Not sure how to explain this better, but I think ya'll know what I'm saying. My Scab LWB Super duty rides a lot smoother than my wifes escape....

Mine rides that nice. It's about correct spring rate to correctly suspend the vehicle, and have just enough dampening to control it. Weight is on our side, unlike your escape. The idea is when you hit a bump, the suspension is soft enough that the wheels go up and vehicle doesn't move. Why does a 1975 f100 ride smoother unloaded than a 1975 f350? Trucks body weight and frame weight is similar. It's because the f100 has softer springs. Good ride can be achieved, the bronco vendors just aren't going about it the right way.

 

[Boss Hugg]

Update:

So the 5125 Bilsteins (185576) I put on the front are good for straight down the highway, especially with the heavy sway bar I built. However, in town and on sweeping curves on the highway, it's really easy to get a little oversteer going. And at about 4.5" lift, the slight correction leads to oscillating body sway in cornering. And there's one particular curve in town that has a hump in it that at 25 mph is a doozy in ANY vehicle.

Since OCBR 10 months ago, I've been running without the front swaybar because I forgot to take it off before hitting the trails and stripped the threads out of the frame holes. (Had the 6.0 woahs when we got to the park and I spent all day Friday working on the truck to be sure we'd be able to get home by the end of the weekend, so on Sat morning, i was so excited to hit the trails, I just forgot to pull it off.) I really should try to fix it before OCBR gets here this year!

So without the swaybar, it does have some nasty front sway (still have the 3/4" rear swaybar mounted). And I've been thinking that I don't even know the valving on my front shocks--they're listed as a universal. And that has made me think maybe I need to upgrade the single shock's quality--or just put the swaybar back on, right? Maybe a bit more specific on the valving? But then I realize that I could easily mount two more of the same shocks in dual up front and probably fix a lot of the nose bounce I get going down the road and also fix the way the front dips and sways in town.

I don't know which way to go, but the wife is always asking me why I'm driving so crazy around corners, and every time I try to explain that it's certainly not on purpose.

 

[ntsqd]

No front sway-bar with a rear sway-bar is asking for the rear to pass you on the outside of a corner. Suggest fixing the front or disconnecting the rear ASAP!

Going to guess that the valving is 255/70 because that is Bilstein's usual "universal" valving. For the front of an EB you need at least 360/80 if these are one per tire shocks.

 

[Boss Hugg]

For the front of an EB you need at least 360/80 if these are one per tire shocks.

So rather than going thru the trouble of special ordering another pair of shocks, would doubling up on these work?

And since we're on the subject... What do these numbers represent?? I know one is compression and one is rebound, but...???

 

[ntsqd]

Normally shocks with valving that stiff aren't doubled, the valve numbers for doubled up shocks are more like 170/50 or something close. I'd look for someone who truly knows or has done it on an EB with good results before proceeding down that path or you're very likely to end up on the far side of just right.

And if you're going to double them up, why not just order the new set with the more appropriate for the front 360/80 valving? Bilstein will do that because I have ordered them with non-std, or at least not 255/70 valving.

The numbers represent the force, in Newtons, needed to move the shaft at some particular speed.

 

[brewchief]

I've got the 5125s with 360/80 in front and 255/70 in the rear, 3.5" deaver coils in front and 3.5" bronco graveyard deaver copys in the rear. I started with the 255/70 in front and it wasn't enough shock, those moved to the rear and a set of 360/80s went on the front. I have an older ( mid nineties) set of duff hoops and the front and rear take the same length shock.
My bronco doesn't see that much road use but performance at the sand dunes was greatly improved, with the 255/70 the front end would bounce, it wasn't bouncing uncontrollably but not far from it, the stiffer shocks helped a bunch.


The shock you have looks to be a 14" travel in 255/70, I didn't see a 14" travel 360/80 listed.

I think I would have to look hard at a rebuildable shock, easier to get custom valving and if it's not right it can be changed until it's good, there are companies like accutune that will sell you a custom valved shock for about the same price as an off the shelf version.

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk

 

[ntsqd]

The 360/80 valving can be special ordered in any stroke length. Doing so *may* require going to a 7100, but it is worth asking Bilstein if you can get it in a 5100. If you do have to go to a 7100 to get it then I'd call Lee at raceshock.com and get his EB front specific valved Fox 2.0 shocks instead. You'll be glad that you did.

 

[LSharpNM]

As others have pointed out, the ill handling you are complaining about isn't due to the shocks, it is your sway bar situation. However, if you want to try out different valving, the 7100 series has far more options for a given shock travel. As an added benefit, the 7100 shocks are rebuildable, so you can customize the valving if you really want.

I am not sure if you have seen this, but scroll down to page 39 of the Bilstein brochure to compare their different offerings: https://cart.bilsteinus.com/Portals/0/PDF/BILSTEINORCatalog2020_WEB.pdf

I'd fix your sway bar issue first and see if you are happy before buying more shocks though. I personally wouldn't run a sway bar in the rear regardless of whether or not you are running a sway bar in the front. I don't run sway bars at all since it is a pain connecting and disconnecting them all the time for the trail and just adapt my driving style for the increased body roll.

 

[jmangi62]

Im running dual WH standard shocks at each corner. I built it that way because I was building my rig the way I would've done it in the 80s when I was a young guy. The ride? Who cares, I mean how good can a lifted heavy,solid axle, shortie, with big tires and wheels ride??:?:-[;D