Starter Grounding Question

[NJBronk]

I’m painting my bellhousing and was thinking about the ground path for the starter. I’m planning to keep the block-side bellhousing flange paint-free, but I realized the dust shield between the bellhousing and block is fully painted….

What is the ground path from the starter to the block? Is it just through the bolts into the bellhousing and then other bolts running through bellhousing to the block?

Or should I remove paint on either side of the dust shield at the mating surfaces?

Just want to make sure I’m not creating an issue and keeping the path clean.

 

[Doyle]

Mine has the ground cable on one of the starter mounting bolts

 

[jamesroney]

I’m painting my bellhousing and was thinking about the ground path for the starter. I’m planning to keep the block-side bellhousing flange paint-free, but I realized the dust shield between the bellhousing and block is fully painted….

What is the ground path from the starter to the block? Is it just through the bolts into the bellhousing and then other bolts running through bellhousing to the block?

Or should I remove paint on either side of the dust shield at the mating surfaces?

Just want to make sure I’m not creating an issue and keeping the path clean.

There is a split ring lock washer held captive to the reduced hex head starter bolt. (Basically a SEMS)

That washer digs into the aluminum mounting flange to create a reliable ground. The bolt is threaded into the cast iron bell housing. If the starter bolt is tight, the starter is grounded. If the bolt is loose, then you probably don't want it grounded. The remaining 6 mounting bolts for the bell also have a split ring lock washer. So that's the path.

I am sure that some amount of current can be carried by the aluminum nose to block plate to block. But I always thought the block plate and bell were painted after assembly to ensure flatness and dimensional integrity. And of course they always rust.

The Delco Remy starter on a Chevy is grounded thru the mounting bolts, and doesn't even have a flange. So there's that.

 

[NJBronk]

I’m probably overthinking it. The PO painted the block mounting surface itself during a past rebuild and the dust shield was painted, and the starter was fine.

So could I actually paint the bellhousing mounting flange, to prevent rust, or better to leave it bare?

 

[jamesroney]

I’m probably overthinking it. The PO painted the block mounting surface itself during a past rebuild and the dust shield was painted, and the starter was fine.

So could I actually paint the bellhousing mounting flange, to prevent rust, or better to leave it bare?

I paint everything, because I hate rust. If the factory had unlimited time and resources, they would have painted each of the components separately as well.

As long as the paint is uniform, it is superior.

 

[NJBronk]

I paint everything, because I hate rust. If the factory had unlimited time and resources, they would have painted each of the components separately as well.

As long as the paint is uniform, it is superior.

Awesome, that was my original plan.

I guess worst case I could run a separate ground wire to the starter directly.

 

[DirtDonk]

Since many of us feel that the one of the best places to run the main battery ground to the engine block, is to one of the starter bolts, that should cover most of the bases.
If you’re starting from scratch anyway, you are building your own new cables or buying an appropriate length cable anyway. Just mount it there and you’re good to go.
You still have the paint issue, of course, especially if you’ve painted heavily inside the threaded areas of the holes.

Many will also add a short jumper ground between that bolt and the vehicle frame and/or engine block.
Many of our Ford 302/5.0 engines have an unused threaded hole a few inches in front of the starter on the oil pan rail.
My wiring box has a bunch of appropriately sized double threaded studs that I put there sometimes for mounting either the main ground cable, or a short jumper from the starter bolt.

The comments about the split lock washers are great information. But it might still be affected by excess paint in the threads I would think?
So overthinking grounds is probably not a bad thing!

 

[Steve83]

What is the ground path from the starter to the block?

Starter nosepiece, starter bolts, bellhousing, bellhousing bolts, block, head bolts, right head, bracket, alternator case (assuming those threads & surfaces are reasonably clean & properly tight). To keep them clean & conducting, apply a little electrical grease to the surfaces after wire-wheeling away the paint & corrosion.

(click this text)

...paint the bellhousing mounting flange, to prevent rust...?

Is the bellhousing cast Iron/steel?

Many will also add a short jumper ground between that bolt and the vehicle frame and/or engine block.

If the B- cable runs directly to the block, then there needs to be another cable from that block bolt (against the head, so the B- cable stays against the block) back to the frame.

But it's not hard to add a frame ground tab on a straight uncut B- to block cable the way Ford did on later trucks. Just pull the cable down to the frame where you want the bolt to be, strip its insulation there, and solder a small ring of Copper tubing onto it.

(click this text)

Many of our Ford 302/5.0 engines have an unused threaded hole a few inches in front of the starter on the oil pan rail.

They should all have 2.

(click this text)

 

[NJBronk]

I have the Wild Horses extreme duty battery cables; the negative cable goes to the front threaded hole on the block.

Could I just run a short jumper (2 gauge) between the rear threaded hole and the starter?

 

[jamesroney]

Starter nosepiece, starter bolts, bellhousing, bellhousing bolts, block, head bolts, right head, bracket, alternator case (assuming those threads & surfaces are reasonably clean & properly tight). To keep them clean & conducting, apply a little electrical grease to the surfaces after wire-wheeling away the paint & corrosion.

(click this text)


Is the bellhousing cast Iron/steel?

If the B- cable runs directly to the block, then there needs to be another cable from that block bolt (against the head, so the B- cable stays against the block) back to the frame.

But it's not hard to add a frame ground tab on a straight uncut B- to block cable the way Ford did on later trucks. Just pull the cable down to the frame where you want the bolt to be, strip its insulation there, and solder a small ring of Copper tubing onto it.

(click this text)


They should all have 2.

(click this text)

Bronco frames are not grounded. There are exactly zero current carrying conductors to the frame.

Broncos are built as body-on-chassis trucks. The frames float. The only exception to this is the fuel tank ground wire, which runs the fuel sender ground to the frame cross member, to the steering box, to the steering shaft, thru the column bearing rollers to the column to the column flange, or column support to the body. If you are lucky, it might accidentally conduct from the frame to the rubber leaf spring bushing to the axle to the driveshaft thru the slip yoke to the transmission. Or else thru the e-brake cable to the body.

I’ve looked at a few of them, and it’s a minor miracle that the gas gage works at all…

Prove me wrong…I’m interested to learn.

 

[Steve83]

Bronco frames are not grounded.

I haven't seen enough eBs to know what's original, but I always assumed there was a ground path from the engine &/or body to the frame. I put body & frame grounds on the one I built because I used an '88 F150 harness nearly complete, so that fogs my memory about it. I did a lot of work on Seabiscuit's colorized wiring diagrams, but I didn't pay attention to that detail enough to remember offhand if there was a body or frame ground wire shown. So I don't have enough info to argue that point, but it's certainly a useful upgrade considering all the possible electrical & electronic mods that are available & common on these trucks nowadays.

Or else thru the e-brake cable to the body.

I'd buy that. All eBs have an e-brake cable with steel-to-steel connections at every cable end, and from the equalizer to the frame, so that would eventually create a ground path from the tank sender via Copper wire to the frame, then via steel to the equalizer to the front cable to the pedal assembly to the dash to the gauge. Right?

Could I just run a short jumper (2 gauge) between the rear threaded hole and the starter?

That would be redundant given that there's no real insulation between the block & the starter, and severe overkill since the battery can't deliver enough Amps to overload even a 4ga cable; so 2ga is ridiculous. If you have a winch, a 4ga cable from the frame to either the battery, or to the B- cable is plenty. But the soldered tab is physically superior to any added cable & joint.

 

[jamesroney]

I'd buy that. All eBs have an e-brake cable with steel-to-steel connections at every cable end, and from the equalizer to the frame, so that would eventually create a ground path from the tank sender via Copper wire to the frame, then via steel to the equalizer to the front cable to the pedal assembly to the dash to the gauge. Right?

Almost right. But the equalizer is mounted to the body floor. So the Ground path is good from brake cable, or brake cable housing to the body. But on the axle end, it has to go to the:
a. brake backplate, to the wheel cylinder, to the steel brake line, to the rubber flex hose. (oops.)
b. brake backplate to axle housing to leaf spring u-bolt to leaf spring to rubber leaf spring eye bushings, (oops)
c. brake backplate to axle housing to differential housing to driveshaft yoke to universal joint to slip yoke (uh-oh) to transfer case shaft to transfer case to engine block. But it never gets to the frame. (oops)

So the other viable path is body to frame via clutch return spring. or
body to frame via emergency brake return spring.

That's all I can come up with.

 

[Steve83]

But the equalizer is mounted to the body floor.

Oh, yeah...

...brake cable, or brake cable housing...

They're insulated by the plastic linings of the cable & sheath.

But on the axle end, it has to go to the:

d. tank ground on the frame, e-brake sheath, brake backplate, brake shoe, e-brake lever, e-brake cable, equalizer, front cable, pedal assy., dash/firewall/inner fender, voltage regulator screw (G201), VR ground wire (26 Bk/R), alternator case, engine brackets/head/block, B- cable Does that work?

(click this text)


But that's exactly why it's so worthwhile to add dedicated body & frame grounds like later Broncos have.

 

[ntsqd]

Other than the fuel gauge functionality is there any reason to not run a flat braid ground wire from some ground point on the body or power-train to the frame?

 

[jamesroney]

Other than the fuel gauge functionality is there any reason to not run a flat braid ground wire from some ground point on the body or power-train to the frame?

Not understanding the question. The ONLY factory electrical load on the frame is the rear gas gage.

as long as your parking brake return spring is present, (and not corroded, or painted, or undercoated) then you are fine.

Reasonable people add redundancy and reliability.
Value engineers eliminate cost. (at the expense of reliability)

I'm not saying "don't do it..." But don't expect it to fix anything...

My original point is that there is no dedicated ground on the Bronco frame. If you are going to put a ground on the frame, make it huge. There is NO reason to put a #12 AWG wire between the ground and the frame. You either want to carry the winch and bumper mounted accessories, lights...or nothing.

And yeah, I love those flat braid ground thingies.

 

[ntsqd]

Rubs me wrong to use a return spring as the dedicated ground path. Creative use of the existing elements is fine, but some things just shouldn't be done.

What if I need a one-time use local area heater? Can I use the 12 ga. then?
LOL.......

 

[NJBronk]

That would be redundant given that there's no real insulation between the block & the starter, and severe overkill since the battery can't deliver enough Amps to overload even a 4ga cable; so 2ga is ridiculous. If you have a winch, a 4ga cable from the frame to either the battery, or to the B- cable is plenty. But the soldered tab is physically superior to any added cable & joint.

I am planning to paint the mating surface of the bellhousing as well as fully paint the dust shield, so the only ground path would be through the bolts. I guess I'll throw it all back together like that and if there's a problem then I'll find a solution.

 

[jamesroney]

Rubs me wrong to use a return spring as the dedicated ground path. Creative use of the existing elements is fine, but some things just shouldn't be done.

What if I need a one-time use local area heater? Can I use the 12 ga. then?
LOL.......

No. Use the same ampacity wire as the one on the battery post. Otherwise, it’s not a wire. It’s a fuse.

 

[jamesroney]

I am planning to paint the mating surface of the bellhousing as well as fully paint the dust shield, so the only ground path would be through the bolts. I guess I'll throw it all back together like that and if there's a problem then I'll find a solution.

Keep the threads clean, and mask the paint under at least one bell bolt. Although the lock washer will likely ruin that paint anyway.

You won’t have a problem.