starting problems

[aliensecretion]

Jumped in the Bronco on Friday and it wouldn't start. I can hear the elec fuel pump charging when i turn the key but nothing else happens. I think I must have a bad ignition switch so I grab the remote starter and hook it up to the starter solenoid. Fires right up. So I replaced the ignition switch but that didn't help. Replaced the solenoid... didn't do it either. I've got 12 volts at the solenoid when i turn the key to start so I'm kind of lost of what to check next. Any ideas?

 

[DirtDonk]

Since you jumped the relay and it worked, you know that one was good. Might not hurt to jump the new one with your remote switch too. Just to make sure you didn't get a bum one right out of the box.
Not that this would ever happen... %)

Sounds like it has to be the relay/solenoid anyway, since you said you verified that you're getting 12v to the Red w/blue wire with the key in START. So test the relay again and see what happens.

Is the connection with the body good? It grounds through the screws and bracket to the body, so if that's freshly painted or rusty where the screws go into their holes, maybe you're just suffering from an inconsistent reading.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Are you even getting a click?
Is the Red w/blue wire connected to the correct (left side when looking at it) post?

Paul

 

[aliensecretion]

I did jump the new one. Worked fine that way. I'll check the ground tomorrow... Didn't know it grounded through the bracket.

No click that I can hear from the driver seat. Have to grab a second set of hands tomorrow to confirm.

 

[DirtDonk]

That's strange. If you're getting voltage to the wire but it doesn't click, it would usually be the relay. If you're not getting a click but you can jump it successfully, then it's not the relay.

Verify that you're getting enough current through the wire in START too. Maybe it's just enough to show on a meter, but not enough to energize a relay?
And make sure it's a tight fit on the stud too. Many a loose old push-on connector has caused trouble for old car owners.

Not sure if a test light would be a better check then, because they don't take much current to light up either, but that might be a start.
No pun intended...

Paul

 

[aliensecretion]

Got to finally work on this a little more. Double checked all the connections and the ground. Everything seems good. Maybe it's time to finally instal that wiring harness I've got sitting in the cabinet!

 

[DirtDonk]

Ahh, you mean the one you've been ignoring while secretly hoping it would install itself while you weren't looking?
That has too many pitfalls. Nobody but you knows how you want it done.

Good luck. It's fun looking back on it all when it's done.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

I should ask though. When you jump the relay, are you using a standard light duty switch that simply connects the battery to the small post where the Blue w/red wire is?

Or are you using a heavy-duty switch that jumps the one larger terminal on the battery side to the other one on the starter side?
If the latter, then that doesn't prove that the relay is good. If the former, then I'm still baffled.

Maybe a bad wire that's only working intermittently. When you check it manually, it has power with the key in START. But when you put it back on the relay, it moves around just right and does not connect.
Could happen.

Paul

 

[aliensecretion]

Battery to small post blue w/ red wire.

I admit, i'm kind of scared to do the harness. The painless instructions are cool but i'm worried about not knowing how to unscrew all the wierd wiring the PO did. I can follow directions but I'm a little worried about being able to figure out what he's done.

 

[Rustytruck]

I would check your neutral safety switch on the tranny. try starting in neutral.

 

[aliensecretion]

I thought about that and did try starting in neutral... no difference. Is that the definitive test or is there another way to bypass the switch?

 

[rhino2104]

Battery to small post blue w/ red wire.

I admit, i'm kind of scared to do the harness. The painless instructions are cool but i'm worried about not knowing how to unscrew all the wierd wiring the PO did. I can follow directions but I'm a little worried about being able to figure out what he's done.

I was right there in your position two weeks ago. Honestly it was a but intimidating but once you start ripping the old out and getting the new in you realize that it isn't so bad. And my PO had all sorts of messed up stuff going on with mine.

 

[DirtDonk]

You can test the switch by disconnecting the plug up at the back of the engine and putting a temporary jumper wire between the two Blue w/red wire connectors. The other two are for your back up lamps.

Remember though, once it's jumpered, you can start the truck in any gear (assuming it starts that is) so watch out.

This test will tell you if the switch is bad, but not the wires themselves.

Paul

 

[67EB_in_619]

If you need to borrow an extra set of hands to listen for the click, how did you test the voltage @ the solenoid when in START (cranking the key)? Are you *Sure* you are getting +12v to the solenoid on the "S" post when CRANKING the key?

 

[aliensecretion]

I was right there in your position two weeks ago. Honestly it was a but intimidating but once you start ripping the old out and getting the new in you realize that it isn't so bad. And my PO had all sorts of messed up stuff going on with mine.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it won't be terrible once I get started. I'm just hesitant in case something goes wrong and i'm down the bronco for an extended period. As this post clearly demonstrates, i'm not confidant in my electrical troubleshooting skills!

 

[aliensecretion]

If you need to borrow an extra set of hands to listen for the click, how did you test the voltage @ the solenoid when in START (cranking the key)? Are you *Sure* you are getting +12v to the solenoid on the "S" post when CRANKING the key?

Ha! Well I do have one or two friends who like to hang out with me every once in a while!

But yes, I am positive i'm getting 12v with the key turned.

 

[rhino2104]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it won't be terrible once I get started. I'm just hesitant in case something goes wrong and i'm down the bronco for an extended period. As this post clearly demonstrates, i'm not confidant in my electrical troubleshooting skills!

I kept all of my old harness just in case I needed something off of it. Fortunately I didn't need anything except the plugs that go between the distributor and the ignition module.

 

[aliensecretion]

You can test the switch by disconnecting the plug up at the back of the engine and putting a temporary jumper wire between the two Blue w/red wire connectors. The other two are for your back up lamps.

Remember though, once it's jumpered, you can start the truck in any gear (assuming it starts that is) so watch out.

This test will tell you if the switch is bad, but not the wires themselves.

Paul

Thanks, Paul. I'll have to wait till this weekend to give it a try. But is that even a possibility given the solenoid is getting power? i'm going to have to spend some quality time staring at it and the schematics this weekend. i feel like I have to be missing something...

 

[DirtDonk]

No. Back to the fact that the wire is getting 12v to the starter relay, it would not normally be the NSS.

However, it seems to me that you can register 12v on a meter or a test light and not be getting enough current (amperage) to energize the relay. I'm not sure about this of course. It's just mental-game theory.

If that possibly turned out to be the case, and it was indeed the NSS or it's associated wires and connector that were causing the drop in current capacity, using the jumper test could still isolate that.
So maybe if you run out of options just take a few minutes and try it. Since it's not that obtrusive or time-consuming, maybe it's worth it?

The only other thing is a defective starter relay or ground. You can test the ground by another jumper from a mounting bolt to the battery. If you're back to getting the clicking sound, then it's not a ground.
If it clicks and does not start the truck, or heat up the cables(!), then it's back to either being a bad relay, bad starter, bad connection between the two, or a bad main ground from the battery to the engine block.

I didn't take the time to re-read the whole thread, but I seem to remember you've swapped relays, checked and cleaned grounds, swapped starter motors, and the usual things. That right? What about the cables themselves? Have you changed them out for new?
I don't remember if you said or not.

Paul

 

[aliensecretion]

I didn't change the starter and i haven't changed the cables (although they were new when I put the engine in 2 yrs ago. I'll run through the whole checklist again this weekend.