Starting problems

[lewain]

I have a 1976 ranger with a 351w. I just installed a Vintage gen4 A/C system. Had to make a few alterations to get it in. Everything was running fine until I started having starting problems. I will take it out for a drive and shut it down, then when I go to start it I get nothing. When I turn the key to on I get no power anywhere. Radio dead, no headlights, nothing. Last couple of times I think that I hear a click under the hood and then everything comes on and it will start. It is as if I hear something resetting itself. What do you guys think?

 

[EPB72]

check battery terminals for poor connection or loose.

check starter relay for loose or poor connection,,

 

[ared77]

From that description, it may be something as simple as a poor battery cable connection. Or even the cable from starter relay (solenoid) down to the starter. Good luck!

 

[DirtDonk]

What they said. There are only a few things that can kill power to everything. But first you must look for that clicking thing. In 99% of the times on our trucks that click is the Ford starter relay/solenoid up on the fender. But if something was added to yours, such as a circuit-breaker, you'll need to know about it.
If you did the install on your A/C however, I'm guessing you know your way around the engine compartment already, and would have noticed something odd like that.

So for the regular culprits, these come to mind first.
1. A bad battery cable. Not the starter one, though that can get old too. We're talking about either the positive or negative battery cable here. So far this is the most common reason we've run across here I'd say.
2. Loose or corroded battery cables. Check both ends for clean and tight. Happens often enough to need being one of the first things you should check.
3. A failing battery. Not common, but can happen.
4. A partially burned through fusible link. I'd say this is low on the list of suspects, but since it's not impossible it's good to verify yours is still good. You can see them when they get puffy and almost melted looking. If yours appears this way, replace it.
5. The big connector in the large black wire at the back of the ammeter. If this connector comes lose, or has gotten rusty over the years, it can create intermittent power failures. If this one goes out, you lose power to everything. Same as a battery cable.

if it's a battery cable this would not surprise me. It would be one of those cases though, where it's likely just a "coincidental failure) that had little to nothing to do with your A/C install.
And old or compromised battery cable can look fine and still be bad. But if one or more were borderline anyway, perhaps all the disconnecting and reconnecting and bumping in to while installing the air-conditioning could have sent it over the edge.

Good luck.

paul

 

[lewain]

Thanks for the feedback. I drove a couple of short trips today with no problems.
It’s very hard to fix something that isn’t there. I am at the point now that I want it to act up so I can dive into it.

 

[DirtDonk]

I hear ya. When my first battery cable died it was very intermittent for probably a year or more, with a pair of battery cables that were only 2 or 3 years old to begin with!
Turned out in my case to be the short positive cable to the starter relay. I'd try to start the engine, would hear the starter relay/solenoid click once, then everything was dead for several minutes.
Jiggling the cables sometimes helped, but not always. Sometimes I just had to wait overnight. Since I'd never heard of such a thing before, it took me longer than normal to figure it out.

Paul

 

[lewain]

That sounds just like my problem. I will put new cables on today.
Maybe even a new battery. I have had the Bronco a little over 2 years with the same battery.

 

[lewain]

Let me throw out another question. Are Optima batteries worth it?

 

[DirtDonk]

They always have been for me, but there have certainly been the horror stories in the past ten to fifteen years or so. I've heard rumors that the newer ones are better, but have not bought one yet because my old ones are still going strong.
The top rated ones recently seem to be the DieHard and others made by the same manufacturer (sorry, don't remember if it's the East Penn Mfg or one of the few others) but my luck with Optimas has been stellar.

Both Red top (starting type) and Blue Top (marine) with the deep-cycle option have served me well. Even when I purposely (by accident of course) tried to kill my blue-tops from sheer neglect.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Regarding the cables, if you have options in gauge size (and haven't bought yours already), go with the larger ones available just as some added insurance and "head room" so to speak.

Shorter and larger gauge are two desirable attributes of battery cables that sometimes get put to the test. Yes when they were new those standard 6ga cables worked fine. The older they get and the more hard use you put them to (extended cranking of the starter, using the starter to get rolling either off road or when the clutch fails, etc) give you some peace of mind and help all that current get to the starter when needed.
And by nature they can last longer simply because as they too become compromised there was more leeway before reaching the failure point.

With that in mind, the minimum I feel should be 4ga with the larger 2ga being even more desirable. Around here anymore few stores stock the 6ga and now stock 4 and 2 gauge cables instead. So for a few bucks more I always opt for the 2ga when it won't cause trouble with tight bends and curves. Not a big problem for us usually, except when the starter relay and battery terminal locations make for some short tight turns.

Most people pooh-pooh the store bought "cheap" cables and recommend custom and/or high end fancy cables instead. I'm down with that too, and in fact make my own in many cases, but I've NEVER had an issue with a cheap store bought battery cable. So like the Optimas, I've avoided any pitfalls and have had nothing but good luck with even the cheapest pre-made cables.
I'll go the extra step and put shrink tubing on the ends to seal the opening between the lug and the jacket, but other than that they've been very good to me.

Paul

 

[lewain]

Got my cables installed and I also installed a junction block to get some wires off the “hot” side of the solenoid. Seems to working great so far.

 

[DirtDonk]

Great news! Thanks for the update.

Paul

 

[Rustytruck]

if the problem shows back up suspect the neutral safety switch. jiggle the shifter a little and try to restart.

 

[lewain]

Well, the problem reared it's ugly head again. This time I am sure that the clicking sound came from the Voltage Regulator. This time when I lost all power I turned on my headlights and had nothing. Went under the hood and shook wires and got nothing. Then just out of the blue headlights came on while I was just standing there looking at it. So, I have now changed out the Voltage Regulator. Working fine so far.

 

[lewain]

O.K. Update, no more click noise. But, still doing the same thing except the headlights will come on. After it sits for a while it will start. So I have jumped it from battery to “S” post on Solenoid with key on and it will fire right up. This tells me that it is either ignition switch or neutral safety switch or wiring. Am I headed in the right direction? What I don't understand is why will it work after sitting for a while? I have discovered that my wiring is in bad shape. A new wiring harness is definitely in my near future.

 

[DirtDonk]

Well this is certainly an odd one. There is nothing in a voltage regulator that can kill power to the headlights or frankly any other component on the vehicle except for the alternator. It's just not wired that way.
Another audible clicking can come from the self resetting circuit breaker in the headlight switch. That would explain the lack of headlights. But that would not explain the lack of anything else other than brake lights, which get their power from the headlight switch.
When this happens, does anything at all work?

 

[lewain]

I feel the same about the Regulator. Before Regulator change I lost all power. Everything was dead, like you took the battery out. Now I have power but, when I turn the key, I get nothing to the starter. Sits for a while and then bam, she fires up. When I put in my Gen IV A/C I removed an oil cooler with a fan. The fan was switched. So I attached the switched wire to the “S” post on my solenoid until I can figure this out or get a new wiring harness.

 

[DirtDonk]

I feel the same about the Regulator. Before Regulator change I lost all power. Everything was dead, like you took the battery out. Now I have power but, when I turn the key, I get nothing to the starter. Sits for a while and then bam, she fires up. When I put in my Gen IV A/C I removed an oil cooler with a fan. The fan was switched. So I attached the switched wire to the “S” post on my solenoid until I can figure this out or get a new wiring harness.

I don't remember if you said, but did you ever replace the battery cables?

And connecting any switched wire to the S post just guarantees that when everything is working correctly you'll have the starter cranking when you turn the key to the ON position.
Very bad.

If you connected it there and the you don't hear a click from the starter relay, that means that either the wire does not have 12 V with the key, or the starter relay is not working.
Or it could mean you still have bad battery cables if they are the old ones.

 

[Rustytruck]

using a volt meter check voltage at the battery terminals them selves. then check voltage on the battery terminals. see if the voltage is getting through the battery connection. if the voltage is the same then there is no corrosion layer between the post and the cable. cables can look good but crusty in the connection. make sure your starter solenoid and relay mounting bolts are clean and tight. these are very important grounding locations. weird headlight issues remove the dimmer switch clean connections and put it back.