Steering box inside frame mount?

[ksagis]

@Hallboss, Two more thoughts for you before the Broncos have my full attention

1) I made a custom pitman arm to address my geometry. Given the impact of a failure of this part, make sure it’s done right of you go down this path
2) Looks like you could move your drag link to top of pitman arm and address both the off angles and also get more bottom side clearance. If you do this make sure you don’t bind on large suspension movements and steering angles.

 

[Hallboss]

If you’re happy with driving habits, take the following with a grain of salt - the angles look undesirable and the different lengths also look undesirable, with both contributing to bump steer. There’s a couple posting from me on the forum of me working my bump steer with a ton of math if you care to read up. But, like I said, if you’re happy, no need to go down the rabbit hole.

Makes sense on drums and the routing, was pretty sure it wasn’t disks.

If you’re happy with driving habits, take the following with a grain of salt - the angles look undesirable and the different lengths also look undesirable, with both contributing to bump steer. There’s a couple posting from me on the forum of me working my bump steer with a ton of math if you care to read up. But, like I said, if you’re happy, no need to go down the rabbit hole.

Makes sense on drums and the routing, was pretty sure it wasn’t disks.

Yes, will research your posts tonight. Good to learn more… thank you!

 

[Hallboss]

You may be able to decrease bump steer by putting the drag link on top of pitman arm, but there may be other interferences you will need to consider.

View attachment 954091

Like ksagis stated, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. However it is a Bronco, and I fix mine till it's broken.


I think you mean "tie rod"?

Interesting with the top mount, definitely can try that also. Yes, I meant tie rod. Thanks

 

[toddz69]

You may be able to decrease bump steer by putting the drag link on top of pitman arm, but there may be other interferences you will need to consider.

View attachment 954091

I flipped mine around years ago (tie rod end, not a SRE) when I had this box on my truck. I had a small lift on my truck (still do) and putting it on top helped my angles. The manufacturers who sold this kit years ago always specified a min. of about 2.5" lift with this box due to the extended sector shaft.

Todd Z.

 

[Hallboss]

@Hallboss, Two more thoughts for you before the Broncos have my full attention

1) I made a custom pitman arm to address my geometry. Given the impact of a failure of this part, make sure it’s done right of you go down this path
2) Looks like you could move your drag link to top of pitman arm and address both the off angles and also get more bottom side clearance. If you do this make sure you don’t bind on large suspension movements and steering angles.

#2 - I will try this since you and @Oldtimer brought it up. I understand now what you are talking about with the off-angles.

 

[Hallboss]

I flipped mine around years ago (tie rod end, not a SRE) when I had this box on my truck. I had a small lift on my truck (still do) and putting it on top helped my angles. The manufacturers who sold this kit years ago always specified a min. of about 2.5" lift with this box due to the extended sector shaft.

Todd Z.

Yes… good to know. I’m doing it.

 

[ksagis]

I flipped mine around years ago (tie rod end, not a SRE) when I had this box on my truck. I had a small lift on my truck (still do) and putting it on top helped my angles. The manufacturers who sold this kit years ago always specified a min. of about 2.5" lift with this box due to the extended sector shaft.

Todd Z.

Todd, bit off topic but curious how you could move it to the top with a tie rod end since seems like most tie rod ends have taper on them? And same for a pitman arm?

 

[DirtDonk]

Couple of additional observations.
Obviously, we don’t have that drag link. Ours is a standard adjustable type with standard rod ends. Yours has spherical rod ends (“Heim joints”) instead. Looks like a Duff Steering link set, possibly with a custom length drag link.

Was also contemplating moving it on top as one option, but I prefer leaving it on the bottom and adjusting the track bar instead.
I like the lower angle that the long tall gearbox provides, and keeping the drag link as close to parallel to the ground as possible.
Better to bring the upper end of the track bar down with a custom bracket, or move the lower end up with a riser. I think lowering the upper end is simpler at this point.
Much of this depends on whether or not you plan to do any serious four wheeling. If you do, then the high offset misalignment spacers are a benefit.
If not, it probably doesn’t matter that much. But being they are spherical rod ends though, I’d keep them anyway.

 

[DirtDonk]

Then again, all this is moot if you don’t really have any bumpsteer.
Your angles are not parallel to each other, but they’re not so far off that they can cause huge issues. But after you drive it for a while regularly, and with that tall lift, you may find that there is some bumpsteer that you’d like to tune out.
That tuning process would start with changing the angle on the track bar.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Interesting with the top mount, definitely can try that also. Yes, I meant tie rod. Thanks

I did that on a different power steering setup a long time ago. Found the ideal pivot point was on top of a dropped pitman arm. So a little lower than stock, but not dropped pitman arm low. Sometimes you have to be creative to get things right. Worked out perfect.

Then I decided I wanted to do a tie rod over, that raised the steering, went to a flat pitman arm. I could never dial out the bumpsteer as good that way no matter what I did. I was even using some high misalignment spacers where not needed to shim the linkage to try and fine tune it. Took a good thing and made it better, but not better.

 

[DirtDonk]

That points out a pertinent detail. I’m always in favor of lower angles on the linkage, but with the shorter link of this type of steering, I think the angle of the dangle becomes even more important.

 

[ksagis]

Broncobowsher nailed my observations from spending stupid amounts of time on this topic.

Match angles (vertical angles) and lengths of drag links and track bars to not have bump steer. Fore / aft angles important too (but this is more of a nuance of my rig due to custom track bar that has a fair amount of aft “sweep”.

Order of importance:
-Angles most important
-Lengths and fore / aft angle next most important

 

[Hallboss]

Couple of additional observations.
Obviously, we don’t have that drag link. Ours is a standard adjustable type with standard rod ends. Yours has spherical rod ends (“Heim joints”) instead. Looks like a Duff Steering link set, possibly with a custom length drag link.

Was also contemplating moving it on top as one option, but I prefer leaving it on the bottom and adjusting the track bar instead.
I like the lower angle that the long tall gearbox provides, and keeping the drag link as close to parallel to the ground possible.
Better to bring the upper end of the track bar down with a custom bracket, or move the lower end up with a riser. I think lowering the upper end is simpler at this point.
Much of this depends on whether or not you plan to do any serious four wheeling. If you do, then the high offset misalignment spacers are a benefit.
If not, it probably doesn’t matter that much. But being they are spherical rod ends though, I’d keep them anyway.

Thanks Paul. This is all helping me learn another aspect of suspension geometry. Much like your advice on the pinion angle that helped me fix the vibration I had. This is why I tagged you in my post… lol. Lowering the track bar will be simple and I will put that on the winter list. There are a few more purchases I need to make before I do some serious off-roading, but for now I just went out and moved the drag link on top. Steering lock to lock and no issues. Will get out and drive it tomorrow.

 

[toddz69]

Todd, bit off topic but curious how you could move it to the top with a tie rod end since seems like most tie rod ends have taper on them? And same for a pitman arm?

I believe we re-tapered the pitman arm from the top.

Todd Z.

 

[toddz69]

Thanks Paul. This is all helping me learn another aspect of suspension geometry. Much like your advice on the pinion angle that helped me fix the vibration I had. This is why I tagged you in my post… lol. Lowering the track bar will be simple and I will put that on the winter list. There are a few more purchases I need to make before I do some serious off-roading, but for now I just went out and moved the drag link on top. Steering lock to lock and no issues. Will get out and drive it tomorrow. View attachment 954094

I'm guessing you'll find that setup will be just fine. Those aren't bad angles in my book.

Todd Z.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Todd, bit off topic but curious how you could move it to the top with a tie rod end since seems like most tie rod ends have taper on them? And same for a pitman arm?

Tie rod over conversion tapered sleeves also work.

 

[SLOWnEASY]

It might be just my monitor, but does anybody else think the big nut on the end of the pitman arm looks like it's bent or tilted toward the passenger side?

 

[bigmuddy]

It might be just my monitor, but does anybody else think the big nut on the end of the pitman arm looks like it's bent or tilted toward the passenger side?

Looks fine to me and appears to be fully seated on the lock washer.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Unless the sector shaft is twisted. See what they say when it goes in for rebuild. Might be why the seal is leaking.

 

[ssray]

It might be just my monitor, but does anybody else think the big nut on the end of the pitman arm looks like it's bent or tilted toward the passenger side?

It could be an illusion I suppose, but the bolt and nut for the drag link doesn’t look like it’s in the same axis as the shaft if that’s what you‘re referring to? The edges of the nut on the shaft look a bit tweaked as if was stubborn coming off at some point and suffered a bit of rounding or deformed a bit during removal?