Stock 4 turn steering box and 35's?

[cody72sport]

just wondering what your experience has been with a stock 4 turn power steering box and 35 inch tires, thanks guys!

 

[bigmuddy]

zero issues. Are you just concerned or is there an issue?

If you ae not getting enough assist its likely a pump issue and not the box when using larger tires.

 

[bchesley]

I added a hydraulic ram for assistance. If you rarely go off-roading then skip it. On road is a non issue, but locked in four wheel drive is another story. I also have a front locker and steering was non existent. Best upgrade for the trails and off-road.


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[cody72sport]

zero issues. Are you just concerned or is there an issue?

If you ae not getting enough assist its likely a pump issue and not the box when using larger tires.

I'm currently running 33's with no issue, I'll be doing gears and lockers in the near ish future and want to plan ahead whether I go 4.56 or 4.88 depending on tires

 

[SteveL]

I'm with big muddy. Box should be fine but if you still have a ford pump I'm may whine and struggle. Look into a Saginaw pump.

 

[cody72sport]

I added a hydraulic ram for assistance. If you rarely go off-roading then skip it. On road is a non issue, but locked in four wheel drive is another story. I also have a front locker and steering was non existent. Best upgrade for the trails and off-road.


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what kind of locker are you running? I was thinking true track or track lock for my front axle. how does a ram behave on the street? I'm going for a well balanced street to intermediate off road build

 

[cody72sport]

I'm with big muddy. Box should be fine but if you still have a ford pump I'm may whine and struggle. Look into a Saginaw pump.

I've got a dual return saginaw pump in a box in the garage, got a good deal on it used. trying to decide whether ill go hydro boost or vacuum. I assume i could just block off the extra return if i don't use it?

 

[SteveL]

Definitely go hydroboost if you're running 33" or larger tires.

 

[DirtDonk]

I'll be doing gears and lockers in the near ish future and want to plan ahead whether I go 4.56 or 4.88 depending on tires

Good to plan ahead. But do you need a real locker? You later mentioned some limited-slip diffs by name, and those are easier on the steering. But are you planning many off-road excursions? And if so, how hard? You mentioned intermediate, but where and what type of wheeling conditions? In other words, the "everybody does them" Colorado mountain pass trails? Some muddy off-road parks near you? Sand dunes? Sometimes intermediate can put a lot of stress on stuff.
Hence my question as to whether or not you even need lockers or limited-slips (two different categories by the way).

Of course, you were not asking about that aspect, so I don't mean to pry...;D But it is pretty important info when it comes to recommending a critical item like a steering box.
I do know plenty of people who have wheeled with 35's and stock boxes. And some have gotten MANY years of good use out of them too.
But most of them eventually broke! So saying it's good enough might be true now, but what about ten years from now when you're far from home with a cracked gearbox puking it's life out on the ground?

I'm with the others in general. For the street the stock box lives just fine even with 35" tires. But take it off road much, and add some type of traction differential to the front, or use your equipment fairly hard, and all bets are off and it's time to consider a beefier box.
Agree with Steve too, that if you end up with 35's you'll be happier with hydroboost brakes. There can be good vacuum assist brakes, but they're few and far between and not something I'd stake my life on.

Paul

 

[Timmy390]

I was thinking true track or track lock for my front axle. how does a ram behave on the street? I'm going for a well balanced street to intermediate off road build

True Trac all day long and and twice on Sunday. No clutches not additives and strong.....

My True Trac handles great on the street. I don't off-road but I can't imagine it being anything but better off-road.

Tim

 

[cody72sport]

Good to plan ahead. But do you need a real locker? You later mentioned some limited-slip diffs by name, and those are easier on the steering. But are you planning many off-road excursions? And if so, how hard? You mentioned intermediate, but where and what type of wheeling conditions? In other words, the "everybody does them" Colorado mountain pass trails? Some muddy off-road parks near you? Sand dunes? Sometimes intermediate can put a lot of stress on stuff.
Hence my question as to whether or not you even need lockers or limited-slips (two different categories by the way).

Of course, you were not asking about that aspect, so I don't mean to pry...;D But it is pretty important info when it comes to recommending a critical item like a steering box.
I do know plenty of people who have wheeled with 35's and stock boxes. And some have gotten MANY years of good use out of them too.
But most of them eventually broke! So saying it's good enough might be true now, but what about ten years from now when you're far from home with a cracked gearbox puking it's life out on the ground?

I'm with the others in general. For the street the stock box lives just fine even with 35" tires. But take it off road much, and add some type of traction differential to the front, or use your equipment fairly hard, and all bets are off and it's time to consider a beefier box.
Agree with Steve too, that if you end up with 35's you'll be happier with hydroboost brakes. There can be good vacuum assist brakes, but they're few and far between and not something I'd stake my life on.

Paul

I'm in southern new mexico, so there will be a lot of sand and a little bit of crawling. the old chile challenge trails are nearby and id go on the easier ones (they go all the way into extreme waterfall climbs which i have no interest in)

I'd also like to make some trips to moab and run the moderate trails

i was leaning towards a true track out back and a track lock in the front since the front axle isnt going to accumulate enough miles to wear the clutches very quickly. I'm nervous about a detroit locker in the back because im going to be running around in the mountains where my folks have a cabin on very steep paved roads that will often be wet.

 

[bchesley]

what kind of locker are you running? I was thinking true track or track lock for my front axle. how does a ram behave on the street? I'm going for a well balanced street to intermediate off road build

I am running an E-Locker so I can select when its used. I used to have to unlock it to turn while off-road, but now with the ram I leave it in and forget about it. You will notice it a little slower to turn with the ram, but it honestly helps it manners from its short wheel base. I wish I would have installed it sooner.

 

[bigmuddy]

I have twin sticks and a locker in the front, I just pop the front out of gear when turning and offroad. The rear has an ARB which has been fantastic, turn it on/off with a switch.

 

[LSharpNM]

I'm in southern new mexico, so there will be a lot of sand and a little bit of crawling. the old chile challenge trails are nearby and id go on the easier ones (they go all the way into extreme waterfall climbs which i have no interest in)

I'd also like to make some trips to moab and run the moderate trails

i was leaning towards a true track out back and a track lock in the front since the front axle isnt going to accumulate enough miles to wear the clutches very quickly. I'm nervous about a detroit locker in the back because im going to be running around in the mountains where my folks have a cabin on very steep paved roads that will often be wet.

Cody, My father's old Bronco was running a Detroit in the rear on 35s with 4 turn steering and manual brakes. The steering was fine, but the brakes could have definitely used power assist. Hydroboost is better, but a vacuum system will work fine. Ram assist can work just fine on the street if you have a properly done system, but I don't think the hassle will be worth if for your use.

For Las Cruces, I wouldn't hesitate to run a Detroit in the rear (The Grizzly from Yukon is a better option), but if you anticipate driving on ice much wherever the cabin is, you will want to go another route. My experience on the rocks is that limited slips are hardly worth bothering with, and if you are worried about the drivability with an automatic locker, I would suggest saving up for a selectable locker. Personally, I would rather have a selectable locker in the rear than two limited slips. My father's Bronco did all the hard (non-extreme) trails in Las Cruces and most of the famous Moab trails with just a rear locker; although a front locker would have been really helpful at times.

I would highly recommend a selectable locker in the front even without icy road considerations, but if you are willing to live with the front end pushing off road, an automatic front locker is certainly livable.

If you are dead set on limited slips, the True Trac is about the only one I've seen that works worth a darn on the rocks. DO NOT waste money on a clutch-type limited slip. They are absolute garbage.

Just for reference, I have owned 4x4 rigs with open diffs front and rear, limited slip rear open front, automatic locker rear open front, automatic lockers front and rear, automatic locker rear selectable locker front, selectable lockers front and rear, and welded front and rear on tires ranging from 31"-38", with manual brakes, vacuum boost brakes, hydroboost brakes, manual steering, and power steering (none with hydraulic assist) ;D


EDIT: Also, this would be an excellent time to upgrade the rear axles to 31 spline. My father never broke a stock 28 spline shaft, but he was a very conservative driver. In order to upgrade later if you find yourself breaking axles, you'll have to buy a new carrier again

 

[cody72sport]

Cody, My father's old Bronco was running a Detroit in the rear on 35s with 4 turn steering and manual brakes. The steering was fine, but the brakes could have definitely used power assist. Hydroboost is better, but a vacuum system will work fine. Ram assist can work just fine on the street if you have a properly done system, but I don't think the hassle will be worth if for your use.

For Las Cruces, I wouldn't hesitate to run a Detroit in the rear (The Grizzly from Yukon is a better option), but if you anticipate driving on ice much wherever the cabin is, you will want to go another route. My experience on the rocks is that limited slips are hardly worth bothering with, and if you are worried about the drivability with an automatic locker, I would suggest saving up for a selectable locker. Personally, I would rather have a selectable locker in the rear than two limited slips. My father's Bronco did all the hard (non-extreme) trails in Las Cruces and most of the famous Moab trails with just a rear locker; although a front locker would have been really helpful at times.

I would highly recommend a selectable locker in the front even without icy road considerations, but if you are willing to live with the front end pushing off road, an automatic front locker is certainly livable.

If you are dead set on limited slips, the True Trac is about the only one I've seen that works worth a darn on the rocks. DO NOT waste money on a clutch-type limited slip. They are absolute garbage.

Just for reference, I have owned 4x4 rigs with open diffs front and rear, limited slip rear open front, automatic locker rear open front, automatic lockers front and rear, automatic locker rear selectable locker front, selectable lockers front and rear, and welded front and rear on tires ranging from 31"-38", with manual brakes, vacuum boost brakes, hydroboost brakes, manual steering, and power steering (none with hydraulic assist) ;D


EDIT: Also, this would be an excellent time to upgrade the rear axles to 31 spline. My father never broke a stock 28 spline shaft, but he was a very conservative driver. In order to upgrade later if you find yourself breaking axles, you'll have to buy a new carrier again

Im on the fence about hydro boost, because i have a vacuum booster and bracket sitting on the shelf that i bought used for a good price, and i like the idea that if i shredded my power steering belt id still have power brakes to drive home

the cabin is up past cloudcroft almost to bluff springs i dont know if you're familiar with that area, the roads border a lot of deep ditches and canyons so sliding off the road would end really badly

which selectable lockers have you run and how has reliability been? Id thought about selectable but the cost would delay it a while and im about to swap an ax15 in and id like to be able to use the overdrive sooner rather than later

Im definitely going 31 spline and probably swapping out the small bearing housing for a large bearing at the time i do gears

 

[1badd73]

I had zero issues with my 4 turn steering box and 35 inch tires back in the day. Since then Ive added a 4x4x2 box and the Bronco is on 37's. I have a detroit in the rear and ARB in the front on full width axles. The detroit does take some getting used to.

 

[LSharpNM]

Im on the fence about hydro boost, because i have a vacuum booster and bracket sitting on the shelf that i bought used for a good price, and i like the idea that if i shredded my power steering belt id still have power brakes to drive home

the cabin is up past cloudcroft almost to bluff springs i dont know if you're familiar with that area, the roads border a lot of deep ditches and canyons so sliding off the road would end really badly

which selectable lockers have you run and how has reliability been? Id thought about selectable but the cost would delay it a while and im about to swap an ax15 in and id like to be able to use the overdrive sooner rather than later

Im definitely going 31 spline and probably swapping out the small bearing housing for a large bearing at the time i do gears

Especially since you already have a vacuum booster, that is what I would run if I were you. You can always upgrade later if you are not satisfied, but it will be a huge upgrade over the manual brakes you are used to.

If you are planning on driving through Cloudcroft and the surrounding frequently in the winter, it would be wise to avoid an automatic locker in the rear.

In my rig with selectable lockers front and rear, I am running the Eaton ELockers. At the time I bought them, they were a few hundred dollars cheaper than ARBs and you don't need to buy a compressor. My thinking was also that it would be easier to repair damaged wiring on the trail than damaged air lines and solenoids. I have mixed feelings about the ELockers though. They have three different locking designs that vary based on application: Ball and ramp, Locking collar, and direct acting. The ball and ramp and locking collar version disengage and re-engage every time to switch between forward and reverse, but the locking collar design does so much more quickly. The direct acting version always stays engaged when it is powered on, but that design is only available for the Dana 60 and 70. The rest of the Dana axles use the locking collar style, which I personally haven't had any issues with. I had to rebuild the ball and ramp style locker in my rear ELocker because I tore it up to the point the locker wouldn't stay engaged despite trying to be careful with it, but sometimes you need to switch repeatedly between forward and reverse with the locker engaged. Eaton sells service parts for the Elockers, so I fixed it for ~$150 vs buying something else and it is still healthy at the moment 3 years later. I certainly wouldn't buy another ball and ramp style, but I would consider buying another locking collar style ELocker like what is available for the Dana 44.

Unfortunately, the only selectable options I am aware of for the 9" are the ARB or the Yukon Zip Locker, which are both air operated and mean you will need to invest in a compressor or Power Tank. Both lockers themselves are great, but it seems like the air-operated lockers always have issues with air leaks or line failures at some point. Some of that is installation quality, but the O-rings themselves in the lockers tend to start leaking with age. Having on board air that you can use to air up your tires is a nice perk though.

Another interesting option which I have zero personal experience with is the Wave Trac for the 9". It sounds like and improved True Trac/TorSen design, but it is pricey.

One selectable locker in the rear should cost about the same as buying two limited slips, and if it were me, I would buy the selectable for the rear if that is all you can afford for the time being and add a locker to the front down the road. The two limited slips is definitely better than open diffs, but I think you will find yourself wanting for full lockers in the rocks.

Have you already committed to the AX15? Personally I would much rather go with the ZF s5-42/47 due to the granny gear and the slightly higher overdrive. The AX15 is a solid tranny and will drive better on the street, but you won't be able to get a very deep crawl ratio with it. In my opinion deep gearing makes driving a manual a much more enjoyable experience on rocky, technical trails. I would consider going with 5.13s in the axles if you go with the AX15. I remember when My Bronco II was my daily driver on 35s and I was thinking about gearing to 4.56 or maybe 4.88s, and one of the local hardcore guys convinced me to go with 5.13s, and I am sure glad he did!