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Suspension Advice

jasonmcc

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
395
Loc.
Nola -> Utah
So as you can see in the image the original owner had done some work to the suspension. It currently sits with Zero suspension lift and a 3" body lift. I'd like to stay in the same height range but without the 3" body lift. I still haven't figured out my engine situation but I lean more and more towards doing a coyote with 6r80 in the near future. For driving purposes, I'll be about 80% highway and 20% light offroad. I've read about different suspension options and originally was leaning towards what was recommended here by "englewoodcowboy" http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288350&highlight=suspension . I've also seen other builds talking about the 2.5" coilovers by King and Fox. Most seem to say I wouldn't be happy with the coilovers for the driving purposes I have, true? I also notice there are some welded add-ons for the front dual shocks currently. Do I remove those and go to the hoop mounts or keep them as is? Do I drop the 3" body lift and go down to 1" with 2.5" suspension lift? Will this cause future issues if I go coyote? I definitely don't want to make any changes to the stock hood. I know it'll never ride like a Range Rover but I want a comfortable ride for 5-8 hour long road trip days. Anything else I should be considering?
 
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jasonmcc

jasonmcc

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
395
Loc.
Nola -> Utah
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Jedeka

Contributor
Full Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
258
I haven’t even touched my Bronco I drug home, so I’m following this with interest. I’m planning on installing a ZF5 manual tranny in mine, but at minimum, a 1” body lift is recommended for the ZF5. I’m wondering if you need any additional clearance for the 6r80, other than stock body mounts. I know the Coyote is wide, but you may need a 1” or 2” body lift to clear the stock hood. I want my Bronco to have a good ride, when driving down the road. I didn’t know if coilovers were the thing or if a long arm with coil springs will provide the ride I’m after.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,258
Nice looking '76 Jason! Very clean.
Quite a few doing the combination you're contemplating though, so someone should know just how much body lift you need to make the job easier.
I don't like 3" of body lift for the look, personally. But the added clearance can be very helpful. Enough to justify it perhaps.
The only alternative to something not fitting under the stock height, is to cut sheet metal. Whether that's the trans tunnel, firewall or hood, something's gotta give.

Not sure exactly why coil-overs would not be considered desirable for the street, but they are a lot of work to install. Not an insurmountable obstacle of course, but not a bolt-on either.
Perhaps it's the typical mounting style that compromises the isolation of road noise? Factory coil springs are not insulated on our rigs, other than with the radius arm and trackbar and shock bushings. Maybe losing the shock bushings (coilover mounts are typically spherical rod ends instead of softer bushings) is what people are thinking of.

If you do stick with stock-ish design for the suspension, and find the body lift appropriate, some variable rate stock height coil springs will soften the ride up front right off the bat.
And the rear will benefit greatly too! You have stock springs with perhaps an add-a-leaf to shore things up. It did not look that way initially, but the second leaf from the bottom looks like it's a different thickness. Might be normal, might not be. But seems out of place.
Is the rear end sagged at all? You're riding right on the "overload" leaf (the big thick one on the bottom) and that's a recipe for a super harsh ride. Normally there is a couple of inch gap between the main pack and the overload. They should only come in contact during heavy bouncing or when a heavy load is in the back. Bumpy ride!

Either that, or the overload was tossed and a big thick add-a-leaf was put in the lower position to shore up tired old sacked out springs. Lots of things can happen in 43 years.

You're talking about some substantial investment already, especially if you have someone else do the work. Seems like it would be a small extra expense to try out standard modern suspension components first. See if you get the improvement you want, and if not then you can go wit coil-overs and perhaps 4-links and coils and all sorts of other cool stuff. Having only spend a nominal amount on the initial stuff.
All of which you could then sell on for not much less. At least helping to offset the greater cost of the fancy stuff.

Just a few thoughts anyway. It's like re-gearing your rig for larger tires. It's a benefit to re-gear the rear Ford 9" diff only, just to see how you like the new gearing. If it still is not quite perfect for your needs, you can change it again and be out only a few hundred dollars rather than a thousand or more for re-gearing both front and rear.

Removing the second front shock (the front one) and replacing the main shocks with Bilstein 5100's would also be a good start.
As a newer Bronco owner (I assume?) you can actually benefit from Rancho RS9000 series adjustable shocks. The adjustability over a wide range of damping characteristics is a huge benefit and a good way to experiment and fine-tune your tastes.
But frankly, for less money the non-adjustable Bilstein shocks are a proven winner on the street especially. A tad soft for some of us, but not many, and will ultimately depend on lift height, tire size, and driving habits.

Good luck with all the fun decisions!

Paul
 
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jasonmcc

jasonmcc

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
395
Loc.
Nola -> Utah
Nice looking '76 Jason! Very clean.
Quite a few doing the combination you're contemplating though, so someone should know just how much body lift you need to make the job easier.
I don't like 3" of body lift for the look, personally. But the added clearance can be very helpful. Enough to justify it perhaps.
The only alternative to something not fitting under the stock height, is to cut sheet metal. Whether that's the trans tunnel, firewall or hood, something's gotta give.

Not sure exactly why coil-overs would not be considered desirable for the street, but they are a lot of work to install. Not an insurmountable obstacle of course, but not a bolt-on either.
Perhaps it's the typical mounting style that compromises the isolation of road noise? Factory coil springs are not insulated on our rigs, other than with the radius arm and trackbar and shock bushings. Maybe losing the shock bushings (coilover mounts are typically spherical rod ends instead of softer bushings) is what people are thinking of.

If you do stick with stock-ish design for the suspension, and find the body lift appropriate, some variable rate stock height coil springs will soften the ride up front right off the bat.
And the rear will benefit greatly too! You have stock springs with perhaps an add-a-leaf to shore things up. It did not look that way initially, but the second leaf from the bottom looks like it's a different thickness. Might be normal, might not be. But seems out of place.
Is the rear end sagged at all? You're riding right on the "overload" leaf (the big thick one on the bottom) and that's a recipe for a super harsh ride. Normally there is a couple of inch gap between the main pack and the overload. They should only come in contact during heavy bouncing or when a heavy load is in the back. Bumpy ride!

Either that, or the overload was tossed and a big thick add-a-leaf was put in the lower position to shore up tired old sacked out springs. Lots of things can happen in 43 years.

You're talking about some substantial investment already, especially if you have someone else do the work. Seems like it would be a small extra expense to try out standard modern suspension components first. See if you get the improvement you want, and if not then you can go wit coil-overs and perhaps 4-links and coils and all sorts of other cool stuff. Having only spend a nominal amount on the initial stuff.
All of which you could then sell on for not much less. At least helping to offset the greater cost of the fancy stuff.

Just a few thoughts anyway. It's like re-gearing your rig for larger tires. It's a benefit to re-gear the rear Ford 9" diff only, just to see how you like the new gearing. If it still is not quite perfect for your needs, you can change it again and be out only a few hundred dollars rather than a thousand or more for re-gearing both front and rear.

Removing the second front shock (the front one) and replacing the main shocks with Bilstein 5100's would also be a good start.
As a newer Bronco owner (I assume?) you can actually benefit from Rancho RS9000 series adjustable shocks. The adjustability over a wide range of damping characteristics is a huge benefit and a good way to experiment and fine-tune your tastes.
But frankly, for less money the non-adjustable Bilstein shocks are a proven winner on the street especially. A tad soft for some of us, but not many, and will ultimately depend on lift height, tire size, and driving habits.

Good luck with all the fun decisions!

Paul

No, there's no sag in the rear end. I don't like the look of a body lift vs suspension either. Currently it's rough and not a fun ride on bumpy roads much less offroad. I want something really nice so I can drive comfortably for hours.
 

blubuckaroo

Grease Monkey
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
11,795
Loc.
Ridgefield WA
jasonmcc,
Suspension lifts with the inverted "Y" steering is more complicated. That's probably why the previous owner chose a body lift.
I can tell you about my own experience and the evolution on my '77 over the years.

It was born with inverted "Y" steering like yours.

My first mod was a cheap 2" lift with dual shocks and an add-a-leaf like yours. Bucked really bad. Bad case of bump steer and wander.

Next was the 2.5" lift with variable rate coils and 11 leaf National springs. One shock per wheel. Great ride! still bad bump steer and wander.

Swapped out the Inverted "Y" steering for a "T" type, and dropped pitman arm.

It rides and drives great now, but I may still remove a couple of the short leaves in the rear to lower the height a bit. I've also kept the extra shock mounts. Under certain conditions, dual shocks are actually still preferable.

Like I've said. It's been an evolution. And your application/use should always dictate your decisions.
 

rguest3

Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
3,780
If a Coyote is in your plans I would stay with a 1-2" Body Lift. This will help with engine and steering column clearance.

Maybe a Wild Horses 1 1/2-2 1/2" suspension lift with the Bilstein Shocks to keep center of gravity low and a much better ride.

Depending on tire size prepare to have the axles re-geared with 31 Spline axles in the rear.

The Wild Horses Y to T steering linkage is a nice set up and works great too.
 

Jamie Chriss

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
577
I am 3/4 the way through the conversion you are thinking about. For now I agree stay with the two inch body lift and 2.5 WH shocks with the Bilstein 5100's. Once you get the motor in you can cut down the body lift blocks if desired. I am went with 4.56 gears with 33" tires. What you will find out is there is so much HP coming from the Coyote you will need to upgrade your spline count and you will need some sort of wrap trap... Enjoy
 
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OP
jasonmcc

jasonmcc

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
395
Loc.
Nola -> Utah
Nice looking '76 Jason! Very clean.
Quite a few doing the combination you're contemplating though, so someone should know just how much body lift you need to make the job easier.
I don't like 3" of body lift for the look, personally. But the added clearance can be very helpful. Enough to justify it perhaps.
The only alternative to something not fitting under the stock height, is to cut sheet metal. Whether that's the trans tunnel, firewall or hood, something's gotta give.

Not sure exactly why coil-overs would not be considered desirable for the street, but they are a lot of work to install. Not an insurmountable obstacle of course, but not a bolt-on either.
Perhaps it's the typical mounting style that compromises the isolation of road noise? Factory coil springs are not insulated on our rigs, other than with the radius arm and trackbar and shock bushings. Maybe losing the shock bushings (coilover mounts are typically spherical rod ends instead of softer bushings) is what people are thinking of.

If you do stick with stock-ish design for the suspension, and find the body lift appropriate, some variable rate stock height coil springs will soften the ride up front right off the bat.
And the rear will benefit greatly too! You have stock springs with perhaps an add-a-leaf to shore things up. It did not look that way initially, but the second leaf from the bottom looks like it's a different thickness. Might be normal, might not be. But seems out of place.
Is the rear end sagged at all? You're riding right on the "overload" leaf (the big thick one on the bottom) and that's a recipe for a super harsh ride. Normally there is a couple of inch gap between the main pack and the overload. They should only come in contact during heavy bouncing or when a heavy load is in the back. Bumpy ride!

Either that, or the overload was tossed and a big thick add-a-leaf was put in the lower position to shore up tired old sacked out springs. Lots of things can happen in 43 years.

You're talking about some substantial investment already, especially if you have someone else do the work. Seems like it would be a small extra expense to try out standard modern suspension components first. See if you get the improvement you want, and if not then you can go wit coil-overs and perhaps 4-links and coils and all sorts of other cool stuff. Having only spend a nominal amount on the initial stuff.
All of which you could then sell on for not much less. At least helping to offset the greater cost of the fancy stuff.

Just a few thoughts anyway. It's like re-gearing your rig for larger tires. It's a benefit to re-gear the rear Ford 9" diff only, just to see how you like the new gearing. If it still is not quite perfect for your needs, you can change it again and be out only a few hundred dollars rather than a thousand or more for re-gearing both front and rear.

Removing the second front shock (the front one) and replacing the main shocks with Bilstein 5100's would also be a good start.
As a newer Bronco owner (I assume?) you can actually benefit from Rancho RS9000 series adjustable shocks. The adjustability over a wide range of damping characteristics is a huge benefit and a good way to experiment and fine-tune your tastes.
But frankly, for less money the non-adjustable Bilstein shocks are a proven winner on the street especially. A tad soft for some of us, but not many, and will ultimately depend on lift height, tire size, and driving habits.

Good luck with all the fun decisions!

Paul

Why remove the shocks in the front that looks like a welded add on? So that would mean a total of one shock in each front corner as opposed to the current setup of two?
 

abn373

Contributor
Full Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
383
Loc.
Charleston, SC
Two shocks up front is too much for most Broncos. It will be too stiff. I have the adjustable RS 9000s and with 2 shocks up front I couldn't dial them soft enough for street or trail driving. But with 1 shock it works great. Leave the brackets on and you can always add the shocks back, but you won't.
 
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OP
jasonmcc

jasonmcc

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
395
Loc.
Nola -> Utah
So I've decided on the t-rex, hedwig sway bar, 2.5" lift with bilsteins at each corner. I'm also looking at swapping out the Inverted "Y" steering for a "T" type, and dropped pitman arm via wildhorses. Anything I'm missing here or other suggestions? Here's my current setup on "76 Sport...
 

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DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,258
Don't forget to add the #2382 tapered sleeve to your order for the #791275 pitman arm.
In fact, just make it a "custom" order when you tell them what you're doing. Doing the following will give you fewer things to tweak when you're installing it.

Get the #2403 tie-rod for the '76/'77 (from the #2390 kit), the #2379 draglink for the '66-'75 (from the #2350 kit), and the #2382 sleeves and #791275 pitman arm for the best match to your soon-to-be lifted truck.

Should end up being the same price. Just that someone at our end needs to substitute the parts.
The issue is that our #2390 '76/'77 kit is sized for the stock '76/'77 pitman arm. We do have a properly sized pitman arm for your year truck of course, but using it does not match up to what you're doing by changing to the Inverted-T steering.
It's simpler than it sounds, but there's a bit more thinking to it than just one part number unfortunately.

All this because the new pitman arm has the largest hole for the full-size trucks, and the '76-sized draglink has the smallest rod end of them all. Plus your knuckles have the widest spacing. You're basically re-designing the wheel to work better than it would if you just threw some existing kits at it.

We're not offering a specific kit (yet?) for "lifted '76/'77 Broncos with T-conversions at this point, because there just haven't been that many with the specific needs over the years. That, and we're slow to change sometimes!%)
But it is starting to get more popular so I'll see if we can list the items as one on the website at some point.

But those are the parts you need, based on the successes of the members here that have tried it.

On another note, your stabilizer shock is mounted incorrectly. It should be flipped around and the other end clamped around the long rod where you can see that bracket "wing" welded to the rod.
Not sure why the PO decided it should be mounted that way, but maybe some kind of tweaking to the linkage put the shock in an interference situation, or the wrong shock was used.

Paul
 
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jasonmcc

jasonmcc

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
395
Loc.
Nola -> Utah
Don't forget to add the #2382 tapered sleeve to your order for the #791275 pitman arm.
In fact, just make it a "custom" order when you tell them what you're doing. Doing the following will give you fewer things to tweak when you're installing it.

Get the #2403 tie-rod for the '76/'77 (from the #2390 kit), the #2379 draglink for the '66-'75 (from the #2350 kit), and the #2382 sleeves and #791275 pitman arm for the best match to your soon-to-be lifted truck.

Should end up being the same price. Just that someone at our end needs to substitute the parts.
The issue is that our #2390 '76/'77 kit is sized for the stock '76/'77 pitman arm. We do have a properly sized pitman arm for your year truck of course, but using it does not match up to what you're doing by changing to the Inverted-T steering.
It's simpler than it sounds, but there's a bit more thinking to it than just one part number unfortunately.

All this because the new pitman arm has the largest hole for the full-size trucks, and the '76-sized draglink has the smallest rod end of them all. Plus your knuckles have the widest spacing. You're basically re-designing the wheel to work better than it would if you just threw some existing kits at it.

We're not offering a specific kit (yet?) for "lifted '76/'77 Broncos with T-conversions at this point, because there just haven't been that many with the specific needs over the years. That, and we're slow to change sometimes!%)
But it is starting to get more popular so I'll see if we can list the items as one on the website at some point.

But those are the parts you need, based on the successes of the members here that have tried it.

On another note, your stabilizer shock is mounted incorrectly. It should be flipped around and the other end clamped around the long rod where you can see that bracket "wing" welded to the rod.
Not sure why the PO decided it should be mounted that way, but maybe some kind of tweaking to the linkage put the shock in an interference situation, or the wrong shock was used.

Paul

Thank you! Anything I'm missing here...
 

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DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,258
Nope, looks good. Thanks!

Looks like our price actually adds up to the same as if you were buying the draglink and tie-rod as a kit. I don't think it used to, but maybe I'm just remembering it incorrectly.
Because of that you don't even have to write any notes to make sure you are not paying more for ordering them as separate units.

Basically though, whenever you're going to order online, never hesitate to put notes in the available space to mention to whoever writes up the order (a real person always reviews internet orders) to check anything you have a question about.
Shipping should be the same whether ordered as one part or two, but you can always ask to confirm that as well.
I mean, hey, a couple of dollars here and a few cents there can make a difference!

Paul
 
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jasonmcc

jasonmcc

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
395
Loc.
Nola -> Utah
I'd go with 2.5 suspension and 1" body lift. No driveline changes should be reuqired.

I already have a 3" and maybe doing a coyote in the future. While I prefer the 1" the thought is 2" would allow me to not worry about clearance issues and keep my stock hood.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,258
I like the 1" better too, but if you think you need the 2" kit instead Jason, then that's what you should use.

If you're planning to take your Bronco off-road, then I would consider longer parking brake cables as well. Normally 2.5" lifts do not require it, and a 2" body lift alone would not require it. But put together, the extra length would help.
If you're just going to play on the street though, the stock length should be fine.

Same goes for the soft brake hoses by the way.
Even with 2.5" of suspension lift, the stock length brake hoses are fine for the street. And even ok for mild playing in the dirt. But you're at that point that if you ever need to replace the hoses for old age or damage or whatever, opt for the longer "lifted" hose length instead. Just a little extra safety measure so you can play as hard as you want.
Well, depending on how hard you play that is!;D

If you're planning to play in the dirt much at all more than a casual trail in the woods, I would replace the hoses with longer ones even if the old ones are still good.

Paul
 
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jasonmcc

jasonmcc

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
395
Loc.
Nola -> Utah
I like the 1" better too, but if you think you need the 2" kit instead Jason, then that's what you should use.

If you're planning to take your Bronco off-road, then I would consider longer parking brake cables as well. Normally 2.5" lifts do not require it, and a 2" body lift alone would not require it. But put together, the extra length would help.
If you're just going to play on the street though, the stock length should be fine.

Same goes for the soft brake hoses by the way.
Even with 2.5" of suspension lift, the stock length brake hoses are fine for the street. And even ok for mild playing in the dirt. But you're at that point that if you ever need to replace the hoses for old age or damage or whatever, opt for the longer "lifted" hose length instead. Just a little extra safety measure so you can play as hard as you want.
Well, depending on how hard you play that is!;D

If you're planning to play in the dirt much at all more than a casual trail in the woods, I would replace the hoses with longer ones even if the old ones are still good.

Paul

Would that be part #1459 and if so do you need #3113 and #8668? For the E-brake cable I might change out drums in the rear for disks, would it be best to wait if thats the case?
 

diggs00

Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Messages
355
So I've decided on the t-rex, hedwig sway bar, 2.5" lift with bilsteins at each corner. I'm also looking at swapping out the Inverted "Y" steering for a "T" type, and dropped pitman arm via wildhorses. Anything I'm missing here or other suggestions? Here's my current setup on "76 Sport...

Jason,

Will your stock sway bar work with the 2.5 lift? I will take your stock sway bar if you are planning to loose it.

David
 
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