Suspension Advice

[diggs00]

I'll let you know!

Cool thanks, and good luck! I plan to do the same lift kit to mine. I will be following you, keep posting!!

 

[jasonmcc]

And if I go with Bilsteins can anyone confirm these the correct ones?...

Part Number: 24-065283
Series: B8 5100
Notes:
- For Front Lifted Height: 2-4"

Part Number: 33-186542
Series: B8 5125
Notes:
- For Rear Lifted Height: 2-4"

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007N6QSI2/ref=crt_ewc_title_oth_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004A60ER4/ref=crt_ewc_title_oth_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2TW9PAD7D7YND

 

[chrlsful]

I believe that's the last thing U do.
Don't U need to decide/compete the BL/SL change then measure frm frame - knuc?
Nice wrk (here) Paul.

 

[DirtDonk]

Would that be part #1459?

Yes, for front and rear.

...and if so do you need #3113 and #8668?

Only if you need new ones. If your old ones are in good shape then you can re-use them as long as they last.
The clips can get old and rusty, and the breather bolts can break. But many originals are still in service today.
Look at yours and see what you think.

For the E-brake cable I might change out drums in the rear for disks, would it be best to wait if thats the case?

Not necessarily. But yes...;D
In other words, it depends on which disc brake setup you use. If you utilize the Explorer brakes then you might as well wait for the cables because they are different.
But some rear brakes can use the stock cables, while others use the stock cables with an additional adapter/extension on the end of the cable.

Paul

 

[jasonmcc]

Do you have to adjust the WH one often and how does it compare to the Heim that Duff carries?

 

[DirtDonk]

Sorry, adjust what often?

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Why remove the shocks in the front that looks like a welded add on? So that would mean a total of one shock in each front corner as opposed to the current setup of two?

Getting back to this one, abn already gave you the basics, but I'll add some more.
The shock mount is welded in place, but I was not suggesting removing the mount. In fact keeping it is a good idea just in case you decide you still want two shocks after all.
Not ever Bronco is set up the same, and not every Bronco owner has the same tastes. Most of us are fine with one modern shock with the modern springs and with the type of use we put our Broncos to. But some still benefit from dual shocks.

You don't use duals to get a smoother ride, you use them to fine-tune to your tastes or to the Bronco's specific weight-bias and how it is used.
It can corner better with two per wheel, and it can sometimes handle bigger bumps with more finesse than a single. In fact with enough weight over the front end a dual shock setup can even be a benefit just driving around town.
I have a heavy bumper and winch setup on mine, and think that the standard Bilstein 5100's are "fine" but could be a tad stiffer. Using two slightly softer shocks instead of one slightly stiffer one might be just the ticket.
And, just like you, I happen to have dual mounts already in place from a previous owner.

A secondary thought though, is what you do with the steering and suspension in other ways.
If you swap your tie rod to an over position (TRO) then your front lower shock mounts might get in the way. Very likely in fact.
And it might not always be in the way, but that same lower shock mount might make adding an aftermarket anti-swaybar more trouble.

Every Bronco is different.

Paul

 

[jasonmcc]

Sorry, adjust what often?

Paul

The drag link and tie rod, my understanding are that it's adjustable. Once you have it set does it move and need adjusting over time and if so how often are you having to readjust it? The argument I got was that it needs adjusting every couple of months and that the Heim may be a better choice because once it's set you never have to mess with it.

 

[jasonmcc]

Getting back to this one, abn already gave you the basics, but I'll add some more.
The shock mount is welded in place, but I was not suggesting removing the mount. In fact keeping it is a good idea just in case you decide you still want two shocks after all.
Not ever Bronco is set up the same, and not every Bronco owner has the same tastes. Most of us are fine with one modern shock with the modern springs and with the type of use we put our Broncos to. But some still benefit from dual shocks.

You don't use duals to get a smoother ride, you use them to fine-tune to your tastes or to the Bronco's specific weight-bias and how it is used.
It can corner better with two per wheel, and it can sometimes handle bigger bumps with more finesse than a single. In fact with enough weight over the front end a dual shock setup can even be a benefit just driving around town.
I have a heavy bumper and winch setup on mine, and think that the standard Bilstein 5100's are "fine" but could be a tad stiffer. Using two slightly softer shocks instead of one slightly stiffer one might be just the ticket.
And, just like you, I happen to have dual mounts already in place from a previous owner.

A secondary thought though, is what you do with the steering and suspension in other ways.
If you swap your tie rod to an over position (TRO) then your front lower shock mounts might get in the way. Very likely in fact.
And it might not always be in the way, but that same lower shock mount might make adding an aftermarket anti-swaybar more trouble.

Every Bronco is different.

Paul

This info is very helpful Paul! Now that I have more knowledge and answers I now have more questions, haha figures.

 

[DirtDonk]

The drag link and tie rod, my understanding are that it's adjustable. Once you have it set does it move and need adjusting over time and if so how often are you having to readjust it?

Ah, ok. Nope, should never need adjustment for adjustment's sake. Only there to compensate for wear and other modifications. Just like Heim's, or any other type of rod end.
Any adjustment is just like factory on Broncos and other vehicles. It's there to fine-tune initial adjustments, OR for wear and tear, OR for tunability at a later date if you change something like the ride height again (such as going from stock to 1" lift, or say from 2.5" to 3.5" suspension lift.

Heim's aren't "better" than rod ends. They're just another choice.
Spherical rod ends ("Heim" is a particular brand name of spherical rod ends) are still adjustable rod ends. Just of a different design.
The primary reason for making your draglink more adjustable (like Ford should have done in the first place!) is to allow you to make sure your steering box is centered when you're driving straight down the road.
If your original suspension is perfect, it's not needed. But as soon as it starts to sag, or as soon as you put a taller spring in, your box gets off-center and one of the go-to methods was to simply remove the steering wheel, move it a spline or two over, and bolt it back on. But this does not get the box re-centered where it's supposed to be.
It's pretty important to keep it on-center, and an adjustable draglink is the best way to do it.

And of course all tie-rods of this type are adjustable so you can set the toe-in as needed. And experiment with different settings too, as different tire/wheel combinations might prefer a different toe setting.

Paul

 

[jasonmcc]

So this is what I'm looking at and wanting to place my order by next week. Being I have a 76 the steering comes into play and I'm having trouble understanding and figuring out what system makes the most sense...duff heim, WH adjustable, ECF or RuffStuff. I also think I'll add the WH 2" BL in Billet https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Billet-Aluminum-Deluxe-Body-Lift-Kit-2Inch-Black-Mounts/Bronco_Body_Liftsplus the Bilstein 4 shock kit for 2.5" lift https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/product/Bilstein-5100-Shock-Absorber-Set-of-4-67-77-Bronco-Stock-Mount/Bronco_Shock_Absorbers. Anything I'm missing or should consider while I'm into the steering and suspension?

 

[chrlsful]

tech not sales?

since the shocks sez "for stock mount" & it looks like U go for 2 inch lift probably not.

Since this is a bit of commerce here - wonderin if PMs would wrk better?
U'n Paul in direct convers w/o need 4 us?

I defer to Board policy &/or my delete button
8^ )

 

[DirtDonk]

Thanks for considering our stuff Jason.
Interesting about the shock kit. I don't see the #88001 kit listed anymore. It was the same 4-shock Bilstein setup for stock mounts, but with shocks correct for those with 2.5 to 3.5 inches of lift.

No matter though, we do obviously still have the correct shocks for the 2.5" lift and they can either be purchased separately or with the 2.5" kit w/Bilstein shocks.
Good catch Chad. Thanks for bringing it up.
Now I'm going to have to find out why we don't see that other kit on our site anymore.
Always something...

Paul

 

[chrlsful]

'priceate ya Paul, C ya on the other forums (or here).
BTW:
Its the 80000
not
8000001
C what I mean....?

 

[DirtDonk]

...Being I have a 76 the steering comes into play and I'm having trouble understanding and figuring out what system makes the most sense...duff heim, WH adjustable, ECF or RuffStuff.

It's a good subject. And an important one for happy camping with '76 and '77 models.
There are even some that say their original Inverted-Y steering linkage works fine with up to 2.5" of lift. However I think there are more people that don't like that setup than do, once the lifts are taken into account.
The body lift won't make a difference here, but any suspension height changes will change the equation.

All the choices you listed should be stronger than stock, so that's a good thing with the larger tires you're likely planning. The most important thing is geometry once you get it set up. Make sure that your trackbar and draglink are as parallel as you can make them. There is an advantage to keeping them the same length as well, but parallel makes as much, if not more of a difference.
To that end you may, or may not need some sort of dropped pitman arm. Your trackbar bracket is already "dropped" compared to older ones using this linkage, so you're trying to match the two using the dropped arm.
You just need to be sure that the amount of drop you're getting matches your needs.
You've read some of the other threads regarding steering already it sounds like. And weren't we discussing it in one of your own other threads as well? I don't remember. (edit: it was probably here in this thread before, but I still don't remember and am pleading ignorance!)

And don't forget the wheel choices. With 4.5" of lift you're presumably going to be using 35" tires or thereabouts? Most of them will want at least an 8" wide wheel, but many recommending between 8.5 and 10 inches wide.
Generally to use a wheel without spacers, any 15" wheel with 3 5/8" backspacing or less should clear the steering arms/knuckles. Some have said their wheels with 3 3/4" backspacing worked, but many others have tried and have hand interference. Probably the different design wheels with different thicknesses and profiles.
For 16" wheels you just need to check your particular wheel, but with 17" wheels this is usually no longer an issue.
With 15's in the wider sizes you just need to remember that with just 3 5/8" backspacing, a lot of that wheel and tire are going to be sticking out of the wheel wells and past any fender flares.

Paul

 

[jasonmcc]

Thanks for considering our stuff Jason.
Interesting about the shock kit. I don't see the #88001 kit listed anymore. It was the same 4-shock Bilstein setup for stock mounts, but with shocks correct for those with 2.5 to 3.5 inches of lift.

No matter though, we do obviously still have the correct shocks for the 2.5" lift and they can either be purchased separately or with the 2.5" kit w/Bilstein shocks.
Good catch Chad. Thanks for bringing it up.
Now I'm going to have to find out why we don't see that other kit on our site anymore.
Always something...

Paul

It says stock mount and below it asks what suspension you have before you add it to the cart. Is that what you are referencing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jasonmcc]

since the shocks sez "for stock mount" & it looks like U go for 2 inch lift probably not.

Since this is a bit of commerce here - wonderin if PMs would wrk better?
U'n Paul in direct convers w/o need 4 us?

I defer to Board policy &/or my delete button
8^ )

Is "Stock Mount" the same as "stock suspension"? I understood it as the shocks are referencing eye vs stem as it pertains to how the shocks mount to your vehicle not "stock mount" as in the suspension height. I'd rather keep this up so that other people can give their own advice on steering and suspension experiences as it relates to similar setups to help me make an informed decision as well as those who have similar thoughts and go searching for like threads in the future.

 

[jasonmcc]

It's a good subject. And an important one for happy camping with '76 and '77 models.
There are even some that say their original Inverted-Y steering linkage works fine with up to 2.5" of lift. However I think there are more people that don't like that setup than do, once the lifts are taken into account.
The body lift won't make a difference here, but any suspension height changes will change the equation.

All the choices you listed should be stronger than stock, so that's a good thing with the larger tires you're likely planning. The most important thing is geometry once you get it set up. Make sure that your trackbar and draglink are as parallel as you can make them. There is an advantage to keeping them the same length as well, but parallel makes as much, if not more of a difference.
To that end you may, or may not need some sort of dropped pitman arm. Your trackbar bracket is already "dropped" compared to older ones using this linkage, so you're trying to match the two using the dropped arm.
You just need to be sure that the amount of drop you're getting matches your needs.
You've read some of the other threads regarding steering already it sounds like. And weren't we discussing it in one of your own other threads as well? I don't remember. (edit: it was probably here in this thread before, but I still don't remember and am pleading ignorance!)

And don't forget the wheel choices. With 4.5" of lift you're presumably going to be using 35" tires or thereabouts? Most of them will want at least an 8" wide wheel, but many recommending between 8.5 and 10 inches wide.
Generally to use a wheel without spacers, any 15" wheel with 3 5/8" backspacing or less should clear the steering arms/knuckles. Some have said their wheels with 3 3/4" backspacing worked, but many others have tried and have hand interference. Probably the different design wheels with different thicknesses and profiles.
For 16" wheels you just need to check your particular wheel, but with 17" wheels this is usually no longer an issue.
With 15's in the wider sizes you just need to remember that with just 3 5/8" backspacing, a lot of that wheel and tire are going to be sticking out of the wheel wells and past any fender flares.

Paul

I'm going with 2.5" SL and 2" BL on 33x12.5R" wheels with 15x8 rims and thanks to everyone for their help!

 

[DirtDonk]

It says stock mount and below it asks what suspension you have before you add it to the cart. Is that what you are referencing?

Haha! Yeah, that's funny. The first thing I looked for was a choice of heights, but when I pulled up the page from the shock page I did not see it. And I was looking for it!
I either stared right at it and missed it (been known to happen) or my page had not refreshed and did not show.
In fact, I think that must be it because the text said the shocks were for stock height too. I read the whole thing and must have been archiving the old info until I just opened it up.
It is a "new" part now after all, so that must be it.

Either way, that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

I'm going with 2.5" SL and 2" BL on 33x12.5R" wheels with 15x8 rims and thanks to everyone for their help!

Uncut fenders, or flared? I think we've talked about it recently, but I've already forgotten which way you're running!
With cut fenders you can fit 33's with no lift. With 4.5" of lift it sounds like you're trying to fit them under uncut stock fenders, is that correct?
If so, and you really want to use 8" wide wheels instead of the easier-to-fit 7's, make sure you have AT LEAST 4" of backspacing. In fact, because you're going with 12.50 wide tires, 4.5" would be a safer bet.
With 8" wheels and 3.75" backspacing a 10.50" wide tire sometimes rubs, and even with 4" backspacing they still almost rub the fender.
So you need a lot more because of the extra inch of tire you have on each side of the wheel.

If you're running cut fenders, then you're wide open in that case.
But then the 2" body lift becomes unnecessary if that's all you want it for. But nice if you want that much more space between the tires and body, or just like the billet look under there.
The 1" billet might be better, but I seem to remember thinking you just liked the look of the billet. In which case 2" shows up more than 1" does, above the cushions/insulators.
Did you decide on black or clear/aluminum?

You can still choose a 1" billet of course, but maybe it's just not as visible as the 2" perhaps? Just saying you likely don't need the full 2" if you could go either way.

Paul