taurus fan, diode part #

[EBCRAWLR]

got the install on the taurus fan complete. i burned up the fan, and i was thinking, what the heck? ... so i recall seeing diodes in some others wire schematics. so i got a new one.. well new to me.. from the junk yard. (didnt even have to use a wrench!! laying on the ground;D) and installed it and when in high mode i was pumping 17 volts to the low side! WOW! (with low on, it put out 7volts to the high side, i think) i dont know about how many amps, because i dont have an amp clamp.

so the question is... what is a good high current diode/ rectifier that you guys have used?

currently thinking about this part number (SDI) SBR8045 rated 45volts, @75amps, but how to wire it into the wire?

thanks for any info u can share! mark

 

[DanWheeler]

hmm, that doesn't sound right. I've been through a few Taurus fans (bearing failures, constantly blowing fuses) but none of them have involved diodes.

It should have a pigtail with 3 wires, black blue and brown.

black is ground and the other two are high and low. You'll want to run 12v to blue OR brown. Not absolutely sure but running power to both blue AND brown may be a bad thing.

I run a 3 way switch:

position1: Powers a Derale fan controller which powers the low speed
position2: off (for water crossings)
position3: ON - high power through a PAC-80 relay

this way it can only be low, off or high but never low and high at the same time.

Is this how you have it wired?

you may not even need to wire up the high speed circuit. Recently I've found that the low speed mode will ALWAYS keep it cool no matter how hard I am running it. It just cycles more often.

 

[Steve83]

The only diode that should be in that circuit would be a kickback built into the relay, and that's only necessary with electronic controllers.

A double-wound motor (like a w/s wiper motor) does that: the winding that's not in use acts like a generator, and will show voltage. The low-speed winding shows high voltage because the hi speed is spinning it faster than the low would turn at 12V (did that make sense?), and hi-speed shows low. Neither indicates any problem with the motor or the circuit driving it.

This is an example of the control circuit for single-wound (1-speed) motors:



Yours would be somewhat different since your motor won't work with 12V on both inputs.

 

[Skiddy]

i don't have any diodes on mine and haven't ever had a problem, also i only have mine wired to low and never overheats

 

[DanWheeler]

A double-wound motor (like a w/s wiper motor) does that: the winding that's not in use acts like a generator, and will show voltage. The low-speed winding shows high voltage because the hi speed is spinning it faster than the low would turn at 12V (did that make sense?), and hi-speed shows low.

Brilliant! I never even thought of that... My first thought was "what can I make that runs off power from the 2nd winding?"

 

[Viperwolf1]

Brilliant! I never even thought of that... My first thought was "what can I make that runs off power from the 2nd winding?"

Just run one winding from the power created off the other. Perpetual wipers. Might have to push start them though. %)

 

[EBCRAWLR]

lets see if i can walk through this!

i have the switch wired

up- auto
middle- off
down- high on

i have looked at many home made diagrams, and (although im no electrician) have found a fault with most. whether it be, not what i need, or not performing the way i want.

in auto mode, temp switches in the coolant system switch the relays on and off. therefore allowing the engine to control how much cooling it needs.

in case you were wondering.. i built and designed my schematic, and only use two relays. with the high side being SPDT 80 amp relay. (5 terminals)
low being 40-50amp 4 terminal.

with all that being said and honestly semi-irrelevant, if i turn the fan to high and disconnect the low side and probe that side to ground, im reading 17volts. which as steve83 mentions is due to the double wound motor. my concern is that 17 volts is back feeding into the relay. (and conversely 7 volts backfeeding in the high relay when low speed in on)

NOW IF YOUR SAYING THIS ISNT AN ISSUE.... well... lets here it... who is buying me a new fan? ;D

now the main reason i started looking into this more, is because the previous fan, (although from a junkyard) was good. and after about oh idk... 5-6 trips around the block. (multiple days of testing, 1-2 trips a day, never ran longer than 15-20 mins) the one day i let it run a little longer, trying to figure out another issue, the fan appeared to be smoking, and once i caught it. turned engine off... waited and tried again the fan wouldnt turn faster than 2 rpms! LOL... thats when i realized i smoked the fan!

since i put the new (junkyard find) fan in and found the backfeed, AND kept the low side dissconnected from the relay. it has worked perfect! spent 7 hours on a trail over the weekend!!! not one issue fan cycled high on, and off, a couple times but mostly high on. (vegas was 80+ out in the desert. (felt like 90+ where we were%))

your thoughts?.. mark

 

[DanWheeler]

Just as your relays can't provide power to the fan when energized, they aren't able to backfeed power to your system when not energized. Inside the relay, the contacts are open (when the relay is not energized) meaning the +17V coming from the fan is going to a dead end. (as long as it doesn't arc inside the relay) It might as well be a loose wire hanging off the fan.

I'm guessing you have something wired wrong. All of us Taurus fan owners can't be wrong.

I guess my next step would be to connect the low side with the thermostatic switch and disconnect the high side and see how it does.

If it works fine, then try them both together again. Your first fan may have just been a bad one with an internal short circuit or something like that. I've noticed the 3-prong connectors are partially melted on many of the junkyard fans I find.

 

[DanWheeler]

Another thing to consider is that you grabbed a fan thats been sitting in the junkyard exposed to the elements for who knows how long. It may have rusted, corroded, etc to the point where it would not overheat during your short test runs but when subjected to continuous use, finally got to that tipping point and burned itself up.

I seized the bearings on my first fan (at the end of a weekend of wheelin), I had one that was DOA from the junkyard and just recently I had one that started blowing fuses on the trail.

Do you have appropriately sized fuses in your high and low circuits? Maybe the fan that died was rusty or spinning with too much resistance caused by corrosion and it burned itself up because you dont have fuses or the right size fuses? That might explain the smoked motor.

 

[DanWheeler]

one more thing - disassemble your old fan and see what you find. You may find a mess of shredded steel and ball bearings like my first fan. Then you will know its mechanical and not electrical.

 

[Steve83]

i have looked at many home made diagrams, and (although im no electrician) have found a fault with most. whether it be, not what i need, or not performing the way i want.

Then tell us what you need & what you want it to do.

i built and designed my schematic...

Let's see it! %) Pics of your wiring & relays would help, too, if they're clear enough to tell what wires go where.

 

[Bronchole]

I think we need to see a schematic of what you have it wired as. Either you are wired incorrectly or as Dan pointed out, you just got a bad fan. I personally have my fan hooked up to 2 seperate 50A relays and I move the wire that activates the fan from one relay to the other depending on weather I want the fan to be running high or low that day.

BTW Dan, in case you didn't catch my post elsewhere, most of the auto parts stores can now order these motors new. I got my most receint motor from Pep Boys for something less than $100 with a lifetime warrenty. It was even manufactured by Seimens like the factory Ford ones.

 

[Skiddy]

BTW Dan, in case you didn't catch my post elsewhere, most of the auto parts stores can now order these motors new. I got my most receint motor from Pep Boys for something less than $100 with a lifetime warrenty. It was even manufactured by Seimens like the factory Ford ones.

That is good to know thanks

 

[Steve83]

Here's how I'd do it:



But I (we) would still like to see yours.

[/topic]
Skiddy
I've been working on a trailer for the past week or so, and every time I flip my hood up & start grinding, your @$%^$&(*$~!!! avatar slogan echoes in my head! ;D

 

[DanWheeler]

That is good to know thanks

yes, that IS good to know. Do you have any pics or information about replacing the motor? I took the fan off a motor once and it was not fun.

 

[Skiddy]

Skiddy
I've been working on a trailer for the past week or so, and every time I flip my hood up & start grinding, your @$%^$&(*$~!!! avatar slogan echoes in my head! ;D

your welcome got pics;D

 

[Bronchole]

No pics but what I did was removed the clip that holds the fan on and then use a fine file to clean up the shaft. Then soak with a bit of penatrating oil. After the oil has had a while to soak in I had my wife hold the fan (she wore gloves) and I tapped on the shaft with a BFH. It is a bit of a pain, but remember you are only really interested in salvaging the fan itself, not the motor. I suggest that you do this befor picking up the motor. I have ran in to 2 different arrangments for the motor shaft to fan. If you have the exact year/make/model that the fan came out of you will get the correct motor, but if you are like me that is all a blurr to me now. I wasn't too worried when I did mine because I already had a few fans & clips of each type.

 

[EBCRAWLR]

work has been killing me guys! but thats a good thing.

someone who can post pics, send me an email to my PM and i will take a pic of the schematic i drew.

havent had time to look at the old fan.

 

[Steve83]

[/topic]

your welcome got pics;D

I'm having a guy come over Sun to do the Al welding - even if I could borrow the equipment, I'm nowhere near good enough to try that.

 

[Steve83]

someone who can post pics...

You can. Read this:
http://www.supermotors.net/forums/thid-5972-how-do-i-post-pictures-sounds-and-or-videos