Thinking about going tie rod over

[Johnnyb]

I've got wild horses, 2.5 in lift, and a drop track bar as you can see.
If I went tie rod over, do I need to order a new track bar?

THX,
JB

 

[Johnnyb]

I should have said "drag link"

 

[1969]

Why do you want to go to tie rod over?

 

[Johnnyb]

Why do you want to go to tie rod over?

It's clearly the most vulnerable point. As you can see it's already bent, I'd like to get it up out of the way of rocks.

 

[1969]

https://dufftuff.com/product/early-bronco-dual-sport-bump-steer-eliminator-kit/#choose-year

I would replace everything if I were you.

 

[Johnnyb]

That's a nice looking kit from Duff, however, I already have wild horses tie rod with both ends adjustable and wild horses adjustable drag link.
I guess my question is if: if I go tie rod over do I need to replace the drag link because of its s curve (shown in the picture on the first post), or is the adjustment sufficient?

THX,
John

 

[SteveL]

Adjustable drag link should be ok as long as you can shorten it enough. Might need to lose the drop bracket on the trak bar which might lead to needing an adjustable trak bar.

 

[jamesroney]

Here’s my 3.5 lift sitting at 4.5. It flattens out a little with the weight on it.

That’s where the tie rod sits when you go TRO and put 7 degrees of caster in it.

You will notice that my tie rod is not bent. You will notice that with your short drag link, your tie rod is bent.

Bronco tie rods often get bent IN the rocks, but usually not FROM the rocks.

This kit was about $200. If you can weld, it’s a deal.

Pick your poison.

 

[DirtDonk]

I don’t see a drop track bar bracket. Just a stock 66 to 75 version.
Was the bent tie rod from an impact, or from heavy torque in four-wheel-drive? Such as when in four-wheel-drive, and bouncing up and down perhaps.
I’m guessing probably an impact, but either one imparts a lot of force.
I can’t say for sure you need a new drag link, but you will probably need a trackbar riser, or at the very least cut the lower track bar bolt short and use an extremely short locking nut of some kind. Better to use the riser in my opinion.
Having the curved drag link does look like it might cause some issue, but the good news is that there are probably straighter replacements available that could do the job.

 

[DirtDonk]

Another thing Johnny, is that no matter what you use for a draglink, you need to rotate the tie rod up to mimic the factory angle.
You can see how your lower drag link end is facing straight to the front. That is incorrect and it needs to be facing up at approximately a 60° angle.
Basically towards the bottom of the radiator.

This not only raises it to give you a more parallel track bar in draglink, but also gives the steering a more natural feel.

 

[jamesroney]

Another thing Johnny, is that no matter what you use for a draglink, you need to rotate the tie rod up to mimic the factory angle.
You can see how your lower drag link end is facing straight to the front. That is incorrect and it needs to be facing up at approximately a 60° angle.
Basically towards the bottom of the radiator.

This not only raises it to give you a more parallel track bar in draglink, but also gives the steering a more natural feel.

Do this. It also helps reduce tie rod flop...

 

[Johnnyb]

Here’s my 3.5 lift sitting at 4.5. It flattens out a little with the weight on it.

That’s where the tie rod sits when you go TRO and put 7 degrees of caster in it.

You will notice that my tie rod is not bent. You will notice that with your short drag link, your tie rod is bent.

Bronco tie rods often get bent IN the rocks, but usually not FROM the rocks.

This kit was about $200. If you can weld, it’s a deal.

Pick your poison.

That's a nice setup. Can weld, could you share the supplier?
THX

 

[Johnnyb]

Another thing Johnny, is that no matter what you use for a draglink, you need to rotate the tie rod up to mimic the factory angle.
You can see how your lower drag link end is facing straight to the front. That is incorrect and it needs to be facing up at approximately a 60° angle.
Basically towards the bottom of the radiator.

This not only raises it to give you a more parallel track bar in draglink, but also gives the steering a more natural feel.

Great advice. No matter what, I will do that.
THX

 

[Apogee]

What are you going to do to address the bump steer issues you introduce now that your drag link and track bar are no longer parallel?

 

[Johnnyb]

What are you going to do to address the bump steer issues you introduce now that your drag link and track bar are no longer parallel?

Great question. As was mentioned earlier, maybe a track bar drop?

 

[DirtDonk]

Correct that too I would hope!
But the point Apogee is bringing up Johnny is that going TRO is not as simple as re-drilling the knuckles and flipping the ends over.
You need to address the lower trackbar mount, and at the same time correct the angle of the trackbar to match the new angle of the draglink.

That is "assumed" at this point, and usually needs some mock-up on your part to see where things need to go in order to keep gremlins like bump-steer to a minimum.
Having TRO does not automatically introduce bumpsteer in and of itself. But going TRO and not doing the other corrective measures certainly does.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

That’s where the tie rod sits when you go TRO and put 7 degrees of caster in it.

What knuckles are you using James?
They look higher up, such as with '76/77 EB OR perhaps F150 SuperCab knuckles?
Or maybe the higher level of the tie-rod just makes it look that way due to taller rod-end studs?

Just curious.

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

Great question. As was mentioned earlier, maybe a track bar drop?

Possible. But better to consider the lower mount right off the bat, after you find out where your tie-rod is going to sit.
On most, when going TRO the tie-rod hits the lower trackbar bolt before you reach your steering stop. In James' case you can see that his is above the lower bolt (hence my question to him), but on many it lays straight across the bolt.
So you either shorten the bolt and run a super thin nut (been done, but does not see the best course of action) or shorten the bolt as part of a trackbar riser install.

The riser also gives you more options on where to mount the trackbar to best match the angle of the two bars to each other. A trackbar drop bracket can be done to do the same thing, but then you might have to make a custom one, or worry about introducing the extra stresses on the frame around the mount. The actual reason the risers were invented in the first place if I'm not mistaken.
While many of us run drop brackets without any hassles or damage or cracked welds, it's not an argument that the riser is still stronger. And though it might not always be "best" for every application, in my opinion it's the best route here with TRO.

Thanks for using our fully adjustable setup. You should be able to simply order a new centerlink from us without the rod ends and head on down the road.
Install the new (straight!) tie-rod, flip the rod ends over to fit the new tapered holes you're going to make, attach the draglink and it should all work together. Once you've figured out just where the trackbar is going to mount that is.

And regarding re-drilling the knuckles, hopefully James has some info on how he does his. Whether he just tapers them from the top and works with the reduced surface area (creates kind of a stylized hourglass shape if you will) or adds some tapered shims like is getting more and more common.

Paul

 

[Johnnyb]

I have 76 EB knuckles, my understanding is that does not require bushings?

 

[DirtDonk]

None of them "need" the bushings to make a tapered hole. But it's my understanding that they all can benefit from the use of the bushing/sleeve.
Besides, a '76 or '77 knuckle's steering arm is actually the smallest of all the years. Seems like they have good thickness, so that might help here. but they are not wide around the hole, so it is important to watch just how much material you eliminate.

What wheels will you be using? The '76 is already closer to the wheel edge than most, and I believe that putting the tie-rod end on the top makes the clearance even less.
Time to make some vary careful measurements before pulling the trigger it seems to me.
Kind of a feasibility study if you will...

Paul