Thinking about going tie rod over

[reamer]

What is "tire rod over?" putting the Right knuckle on the Left and Left on the Right?

 

[1969]

What is "tire rod over?" putting the Right knuckle on the Left and Left on the Right?

Flipping the tie rod to the top of the knuckle instead of it being mounted on the bottom.

 

[jamesroney]

What knuckles are you using James?
They look higher up, such as with '76/77 EB OR perhaps F150 SuperCab knuckles?
Or maybe the higher level of the tie-rod just makes it look that way due to taller rod-end studs?

Just curious.

Paul

I am running OEM 1971 Drum Brake D1TA Dana 44 knuckles. GM disc conversion. The Tie rod looks higher because I am running 7 degrees of caster, and that kicks it up another inch.

Wild Horses 4x4 trac bar riser, pin in 2nd hole, and top hole cut off. Factory trac bar, and factory frame bracket. 4x4x2 Box with 78 Bronco pitman arm reversed and twisted 12 degrees. And that huge pitman arm hub shaved down so a normal puller will fit it.

But no special TRE's. Factory GM stuff. And the Bronco anti-flop donut.

 

[jamesroney]

That's a nice setup. Can weld, could you share the supplier?
THX

Technically, all of the parts are OEM, and the weld bungs are machined. But there is a supplier on Ebay that has sold over 346 of these kits. He is out of WA state.

The ebay keyword search is "Dana 60 high steer" The first hit should be 4 tie rod ends, and 4 weld bungs and 4 jam nuts for $89.00 to your door.

Then you will need to source some DOM tubing. I use a 36 inch stick for the tie rod at 3/16 wall. Then a 24 inch stick of 1/8 wall. Tubing is stupid, because it is specified as an OD, and a wall thickness. So yeah...1-3/8 x 3/16 wall, and 1-1/4 x 1/8 wall. But the goal is to have a nominal 1 inch ID tube. Ebay is your friend here. and keyword 1.375 DOM .188 wall

I choose the 36 inch stick because it is not oversize at UPS. So it ships cheap. I can't buy metal here in the SF Bay Area anymore. Every time I buy something, I feel like I am making a yacht payment for my suppler, or buying a college scholarship. It's beyond silly.

You will need a 7 degree tapered reamer to reverse and enlarge the taper on your passenger side TRE. You will also need a tapered reamer to enlarge the taper on your stock pitman arm if you keep it. You will be tempted to use the tapered reamer to reverse the taper on your steering knuckles. Then you might set them up in your mill and fit the taper for the 1 ton tre. Then you might install the knuckles, brakes, and hubs on the axle, and determine that you don't like how the taper doesn't leave quite enough material on the small end. Then you might be tempted to try to drill the knuckle for sleeves after it's mounted to the housing. Then you might try to counter bore the newly drilled knuckle for a tapered bushing so that the castle nut fits properly with the cotter key. This usually results in a really bad hole with a tapered shoulder. So don't do that. Just surrender and buy the tapered bushings for $10.00 and fit them properly to the steering arm while it's in the vice. You have been warned.

But yeah...$200 in parts will get it done. Cheap Chinese TRE's. But the whole point of going big is so that you don't have to go special. That Chinese junk holds up really well in a little Bronco.

 

[Johnnyb]

Technically, all of the parts are OEM, and the weld bungs are machined. But there is a supplier on Ebay that has sold over 346 of these kits. He is out of WA state.

The ebay keyword search is "Dana 60 high steer" The first hit should be 4 tie rod ends, and 4 weld bungs and 4 jam nuts for $89.00 to your door.

Then you will need to source some DOM tubing. I use a 36 inch stick for the tie rod at 3/16 wall. Then a 24 inch stick of 1/8 wall. Tubing is stupid, because it is specified as an OD, and a wall thickness. So yeah...1-3/8 x 3/16 wall, and 1-1/4 x 1/8 wall. But the goal is to have a nominal 1 inch ID tube. Ebay is your friend here. and keyword 1.375 DOM .188 wall

I choose the 36 inch stick because it is not oversize at UPS. So it ships cheap. I can't buy metal here in the SF Bay Area anymore. Every time I buy something, I feel like I am making a yacht payment for my suppler, or buying a college scholarship. It's beyond silly.

You will need a 7 degree tapered reamer to reverse and enlarge the taper on your passenger side TRE. You will also need a tapered reamer to enlarge the taper on your stock pitman arm if you keep it. You will be tempted to use the tapered reamer to reverse the taper on your steering knuckles. Then you might set them up in your mill and fit the taper for the 1 ton tre. Then you might install the knuckles, brakes, and hubs on the axle, and determine that you don't like how the taper doesn't leave quite enough material on the small end. Then you might be tempted to try to drill the knuckle for sleeves after it's mounted to the housing. Then you might try to counter bore the newly drilled knuckle for a tapered bushing so that the castle nut fits properly with the cotter key. This usually results in a really bad hole with a tapered shoulder. So don't do that. Just surrender and buy the tapered bushings for $10.00 and fit them properly to the steering arm while it's in the vice. You have been warned.

But yeah...$200 in parts will get it done. Cheap Chinese TRE's. But the whole point of going big is so that you don't have to go special. That Chinese junk holds up really well in a little Bronco.

Wow! Thank you so much for the excellent write up.
So I think I'm definitely going to start working towards TRO, but everybody who has replied has convinced me that it needs to be done right.
I'll probably fix what I have now, cuz I'm so close to being on the road after 20 years of dormancy, I want to drive it!
In the meantime, I'm going to start getting the right stuff together and planning this out with all the suggestions provided above.
Your setup looks great and I might just wait until I order all the stuff and build it.

Thanks,
John

 

[reamer]

I'm confused ...the holes for the tie rods in the knuckles are tapered, correct? how does the top of the knuckle opening accept taper of the tie rod ?

 

[toddz69]

I'm confused ...the holes for the tie rods in the knuckles are tapered, correct? how does the top of the knuckle opening accept taper of the tie rod ?

If I'm understanding your question correctly, you have to ream them from the top for the tie rod end to fit.

Todd Z.

 

[reamer]

Thanks

 

[DirtDonk]

What Todd said.
But that’s why I raise the question earlier about enough material and the use of tapered sleeves to fill extra gaps.
When you have a tapered hole in the bottom already and then taper a new one from the top you have the potential for not enough material contact between the tapered stud and the tapered hole.
To my knowledge no normal street driven bronco has ever had a real problem with this. Or at least not that I remember having been reported here on the forums.
But it’s a real thing and there are parts available to fill the bottom taper prior to drilling from the top.
This ensures a greater contact area between the rod end on the steering arm.

 

[jamesroney]

What Todd said.
But that’s why I raise the question earlier about enough material and the use of tapered sleeves to fill extra gaps.
When you have a tapered hole in the bottom already and then taper a new one from the top you have the potential for not enough material contact between the tapered stud and the tapered hole.
To my knowledge no normal street driven bronco has ever had a real problem with this. Or at least not that I remember having been reported here on the forums.
But it’s a real thing and there are parts available to fill the bottom taper prior to drilling from the top.
This ensures a greater contact area between the rod end on the steering arm.

One more thing...

There are three ways to do the tie rod over conversion. One is to use a tapered cone sleeve, second is to use a straight wall sleeve, and the third is to use no sleeve.

If the knuckle is on the Bronco, then I like the cone sleeve the best, because you can do it without machining a counterbore.
If the knuckle is on the bench, then I like the straight wall sleeve, and you can recess it into the arm so that the castle nut fits.

The "no sleeve" solution leaves an hour-glass shaped hole in the steering arm. By the time you get the taper deep enough to feel good about the hourglass...the tie rod is too close to the knuckle. And it's really hard to drill that hole straight by hand. So I much prefer the WH 2388 cones over the "no-sleeve" solution.

pics coming...

 

[toddz69]

One more thing...

There are three ways to do the tie rod over conversion. One is to use a tapered cone sleeve, second is to use a straight wall sleeve, and the third is to use no sleeve.

If the knuckle is on the Bronco, then I like the cone sleeve the best, because you can do it without machining a counterbore.
If the knuckle is on the bench, then I like the straight wall sleeve, and you can recess it into the arm so that the castle nut fits.

The "no sleeve" solution leaves an hour-glass shaped hole in the steering arm. By the time you get the taper deep enough to feel good about the hourglass...the tie rod is too close to the knuckle. And it's really hard to drill that hole straight by hand. So I much prefer the WH 2388 cones over the "no-sleeve" solution.

pics coming...

I was going to mention the straight wall sleeves too. I think we used those on our NORRA Bronco - Duff also sells them.

James - I forget - is the taper on the F150 pieces the same as the GM 1 ton? I think they are?

Todd Z.

 

[jamesroney]

I was going to mention the straight wall sleeves too. I think we used those on our NORRA Bronco - Duff also sells them.

James - I forget - is the taper on the F150 pieces the same as the GM 1 ton? I think they are?

Todd Z.

It's a trick question! Taper is the same at 7.15 degrees (1.5 inches per foot) , but different nominal diameters.

So yes. But no.

Like I said before, if you use the straight wall sleeve...you need to counter bore the knuckle for the shoulder to get the correct depth. Otherwise, the cotter pin won't go thru the hole. I had some F150 knuckles that someone drilled for Heims. The straight sleeve was the only solution. Now I do everything that way.