This Explorer power steering sucks

[86Horn_EB_77]

Well - it's about the same with another Parts Store rebuilt pump - it doesn't make noise, hydroboost seems fine - but there's not much power steering assist to speak of. This box puked a bunch of fluid out of the resevior with the engine off - and turning the wheel lock to lock - but maybe that's normal?

I'm beginning to think it's the box. I didn't drive it very much with the old Mustang Serp pump but the steering assist wasn't great then - and that was before hydroboost (and the Explorer Serp system).

Stock Bronco box - I have another one I can try. I know it works OK with 31s on my other Bronco - but this one has 37s. I'm probably headed toward ram assist anyway - now I need to decide if just get the stock bronco box rebuilt or go with a 4x4x2 box.

I will send my pump off to PSC or West Texas off road once I'm sure it's the pump - I really need to figure out a way to rig up a power steering pressure gauge...

 

[ransil]

Well - it's about the same with another Parts Store rebuilt pump - it doesn't make noise, hydroboost seems fine - but there's not much power steering assist to speak of. This box puked a bunch of fluid out of the resevior with the engine off - and turning the wheel lock to lock - but maybe that's normal?

I'm beginning to think it's the box. I didn't drive it very much with the old Mustang Serp pump but the steering assist wasn't great then - and that was before hydroboost (and the Explorer Serp system).

Stock Bronco box - I have another one I can try. I know it works OK with 31s on my other Bronco - but this one has 37s. I'm probably headed toward ram assist anyway - now I need to decide if just get the stock bronco box rebuilt or go with a 4x4x2 box.

I will send my pump off to PSC or West Texas off road once I'm sure it's the pump - I really need to figure out a way to rig up a power steering pressure gauge...

Puking air says you still have air in the system, need to bleed it out.

I have had air before and the only way I could get the air to bleed was to remove the pressure hose going into the PS box and crank the motor while dumping the fluid into a bucket, reinstall and bleed as normal.

 

[86Horn_EB_77]

Thanks Ransil - I will try that. Did you crank the motor over on the starter or actually start it while you drained it into a bucket?

And you can always depend on the Penn guys for a good answer. My Dad grew up around Uniontown & Brownsville - those coal miners are good people. (District 12 for those who have recently seen the Hunger Games)

 

[DanWheeler]

yeah, your systems got the bends, man you need to get that air out.

proper bleeding has been discussed here at length over and over and over again. Lots of people in your same shoes thinking they have a pump, h-boost or gearbox problem but its just air in the sytem. it's tough to get it out.

 

[Viperwolf1]

I used a vac pump on the reservoir neck while turning the pump shaft with a drill to get all the air out.

 

[ransil]

Thanks Ransil - I will try that. Did you crank the motor over on the starter or actually start it while you drained it into a bucket?

And you can always depend on the Penn guys for a good answer. My Dad grew up around Uniontown & Brownsville - those coal miners are good people. (District 12 for those who have recently seen the Hunger Games)

I have done it both ways, both worked but I made a mess both ways. Get some help it may cut down on the mess.

Uniontown is 10 miles down the road.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[86Horn_EB_77]

Yeah I know there have been a hundred posts on bleeding your hydroboost & steering - and they all say the same thing - jack the front end up - go lock to lock and hit the brakes a million times. It just doesn't seem to help.

That's why I'm tempted to try Ransil's method - although I'm afraid of introducing more air into the system.

I tried a bit more bleeding and driving on Sunday - and it's not "bad" it's just not "great". Brakes are great, it's just that there very little steering assist while stopped at idle. By that I mean the wheel is almost imposible to turn with 2 hands. (with 37 Iroks) If I rev the engine to about 1500/2000 then I get some power assist - the steering is still heavy but I can make the tires move.

It seems like the pump just needs some more "umph" at idle. I know Driven sells a smaller Explorer pump pulley - I'm thinking of trying that. I'd also like to jack the pump pressure up - but unlike the Saginaw Canned Ham pumps - the explorer pump has a "sealed" flow piston/pressure relief valve - meaning you can't unscrew the cap off the end and add shims to the pressure spring. Does anyone know what the vendors do to jack up the pump pressure? I tried putting the Superduty flow/pressure assembly in the Explorer pump housing - and that seemed to go backwards - less pressure...

Since I've done such an excellent job jacking-up my Explorer pumps - I think I'll order a rebuild kit for the steering box and see if I can rebuild it and tap it for a hydro assist ram. Then, when I screw it all up - I can throw the pump and steering gear into a box and mail it all to PSC !!!

 

[DanWheeler]

I really dont think the problem is your explorer pump. I dont recommend throwing money and rebuilds at it. If my off the shelf explorer pump can push my 41s around, your 37s should be no problem. Steering effort was fine even before I added ram assist. Must be something else not right. Double check your routing. Is the fluid foamy or not?

 

[86Horn_EB_77]

Well... I'm down to lack of assist at idle, and nothing has blown up so I'm pretty sure the plumbing is correct. Only change I can think of at this point is to add a PSC dual return reservoir. (or a BC broncos 2 into 1 filter)

I can see the fluid "churning" inside the Explorer plastic res. but I would not say that the oil is foamy.

I'm suspecting the box more than the pump at this point.

 

[mattt]

I had my pump rebuilt/upgraded for more psi at a ps rebuilder I use locally. They were very reasonable(<$100) and quick turn around. They told me the way to make changes to this pump is by using Super Duty parts.....what, where and how many, I dont know....that is why I paid them to do it....because they have the knowledge. They also asked if I had hydroboost or a ram because they can boost just the psi, or the psi and the flow for ps/hydro/ram vehicles.

When mine is running, you can see fluid movement inside the reservoir. It took mine quite a while to burp all the air out. What finally worked for me was to spin the pump pulley with a drill and keep adding fluid. Turning the wheel lock to lock and all that other bs didn't work for me.

 

[DanWheeler]

What about bypassing the hydroboost as a test? Just go straight from pump to steering box.

What size hose are your returns and where is your TEE?

Also - let's double check your routing just to be sure. It WILL work if routed wrong but not very well. Ask NVRSTUCK about that

Which port on the h-boost does your pump output connect to? drivers side or passenger side and are your hoses on top or bottom (aka flipped h-boost)

 

[KyleQ]

Hydrosuck is AMAZINGLY sensitive to the return line, enough so that you really aughta have a separate return line from the hydrosuck to your reservoir.

If you are running a T in your line, the hydroboost should have the right of way on the T, the power steering should go to the intersection (if that makes any sense)

 

[86Horn_EB_77]

New idea for the day - steering box check valves?

Kyle - my tee is opposite of what you suggest I think: the PS return line runs "straight thru" and the hydroboost return comes in at a 90. I thought I read that it should be this way because almost all the flow is in the PS loop and very little flow is in the HB loop. The HB seems to work great - I don't get any "slow brake release" like I would expect if the return was being back pressured.

Dan - my entire return system is made from 3/8 tranny cooler hose - the tee is a 3/8 brass homie-depot with 3/8 barb fittings. The astroboost input is at about 45 degrees - pointed at the pass side. The output to the box is about 45 pointed to the driver. I'm using the Ebay angle bracket and I think it orients the HB pretty close to how it would be clocked in the Van. The return from the HB runs to the tee. The return from the box runs to the bottom port of a single pass tranny cooler mounted in front of the rad. I made sure the cooler is mounted below the pump inlet - although air should purge thru a single pass cooler in any case. The return from the top port of the cooler goes to the tee.

New idea for the day: Power steering box check valves:

One thing I've noticed on my system - is that cranking the wheel from lock to lock (with engine off) will cause the reservoir to overflow. Now that I've studied the steering box, I've learned that there are two check valves in the inlet/outlet of the box. Could one or both of these be failed (or missing) and that's causing this overflow - and maybe not letting me purge all the air from the box?

 

[Ranchtruck]

One thing I've noticed on my system - is that cranking the wheel from lock to lock (with engine off) will cause the reservoir to overflow. Now that I've studied the steering box, I've learned that there are two check valves in the inlet/outlet of the box. Could one or both of these be failed (or missing) and that's causing this overflow - and maybe not letting me purge all the air from the box?

Overflowing when turning the wheel from lock to lock with the engine off is pretty normal. You hydroboost may be limiting the pressure or flow that continues on to the power steering box. Try connecting the pressure line from the pump directly to the box. You also mentioned pump whining which could be a restriction in the system forcing the pump to work harder. Does the pump get hot?

 

[86Horn_EB_77]

More fun with Explorer pumps...

OK RanchTruck... now that BOTH you and Dan told me to bypass the HB, I guess I'll do it...

I did actually do that when I had my FIRST pump installed (and the Russell o-ring pump output fitting that was blocking most of the flow) - and found that I still had no pressure/flow to the box. But I should try it again to see if my Astroboost is killing my pressure. If so, I'll have to see if the Russell fittings are killing the flow there as well - I suspect all those o-ring bastards since the pump fitting cost me a day of grief.

Also - I pulled apart my Superduty/Explorer hybrid pump again - and compared the Superduty pressure/flow piston and spring to the Explorer piston and spring. The SD piston is stamped with a "3" on top, while the Explorer piston has a "7" on top. Could this mean that the Explorer pressure relief is set higher? The Explorer piston spring is also about 3-4mm longer - so it's exerting more force than the SD spring at "idle". The relief hole in the side of the SD piston is also bigger than the Explorer piston. (See Lars pics of the SD parts for reference)

Now... here where I really went off the deep end. The Explorer/SD pistons are not "adjustable" using the West Texas Off road pressure mod that you can do on the Saginaw canned ham pumps - the end of the piston doesn't unscrew - so you can't remove shims or tighten the cap to increase the spring pressure. But... it looks like the end of the piston (that retains the spring and plunger) is just pressed into the body - so I chucked it up in my press and put some pressure on it - sure enough, the spring retainer moved in about 1/16. This should put more preload on the spring at jack up the pressure... but how much?

I think the right way to do this is to figure out a way to remove that spring retainer completely, remove the spring/plunger, shorten the plunger so that it maintains some travel, then thread the end of the piston for a carb jet or a set screw with a hole so that the spring pressure can be adjusted to set the pump max pressure. Is everyone asleep yet?

If not, tune in next week when I blow the pressure lines off the pump experimenting with spring pressure settings... yikes.

Did I mention that I want to rebuild my Saginaw box and port it for a ram assist too? Will I ever drive this truck ???

 

[KyleQ]

I have two hydroboost units sitting in my shop ready to go, but I still have not touched them in loathing of these issues. I don't see the point of chasing after all of this hydraulic work when manual disk brakes work awesome - same pedal feel running or not.

I could have sworn that you wanted the hydroboost return line going straight to the reservoir as it is high pressure, love volume - but very sensitive.

Bypass the hydroboost and see what happens- it seems like you are trying to do too many things at once. Get your steering working and then tackle the brakes.