timing question for those running estreet efi video added

[DirtDonk]

...I had the bung moved up to the collector and that didn't change anything.

Well hell. I though we were on to something with that little bit. Ugh.

Glad it's not my daily driver.

Yeah, no kidding!
The gas bill would be impressive and you'd be on everyone's watch list during all the spare-the-air days!

What about going backwards and leaning the target AFR out again? I'll have to re-read things, but did you try that and something else was giving you a hard time? Or have you never tried getting it closer to the 14.7:1 ratio during idle and decel?
Then again, it's only those three plugs that are sooted up, which means you have a distribution issue in your intake maybe?
With your intake manifold, are those three on the same branch/tract?
Just curious, and grasping at straws at the moment.

Paul

 

[rguest3]

I installed the E-Street on a new 347. If I remember correctly the timing was finally set at 16'.

I did however, initially have a bad O2 sensor. After replacing that everything ran great!

 

[m_m70]

Thanks for the replies,
I have an Edelbrock performer intake that I suspect may have a vacuum leak from underneath. That may explain the fouled plugs in 1, 5 and 6. The plugs were new and have virtually no "miles" on them as they were replaced when trying to dial in the idle.
Timing is set at 17* and vacuum once warmed up varies between 18
and 19. However the vacuum is erratic while warming up.
I have a video posted on you tube of the tablet during complete warm up. It's close to 10 minutes long but if anyone interested in looking at it here is the link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48Q9hIqMKSk
I sent this to Edelbrock support to see if they had any input.
Paul, when I leaned out to anything over 14 AFR at idle it surges bad. idle varies about 250 RPMs so I have it set at 13.6. Once warmed up it idles OK.

Mike

 

[stus70brc]

I installed the E-street last year haven't had any problems with it except for the cold starts they suck! Is there a update they can send you to cure this?? It does miss and pop when its cold its you are easy on it till it warms up it does fine!

 

[m_m70]

Cold starts and idle are the biggest issues I'm having besides running rich. Edelbrock just responded after looking at the video and they thought that the truck sounded loud and maybe thee wasn't enough run after the sensor.
They also said it didn't seem like I had enough vacuum for a stock cam. I responded that when it's warm the vacuum is between 18 and 19 and I thought that is normal for a stock cam.
They asked me to load a map for a mild cam to see if that helps.
We'll see I guess.

 

[m_m70]

Edelbrock sending newer maps. Fingers crossed!

 

[m_m70]

OK just want to update instead of letting this thread die.
I got this to idle acceptable by doing a few fixes. I changed the intake manifold gasket because I thought there may be a leak. That helped but still not quite right. Bumped the timing up to 18* and that helped a lot.
The IAC still makes a lot of noise on cold starts but seems to fade out when warmed up. RPMs still bounce around between 800 and 835 but the popping out the exhaust has stopped. Edelbrock told me that the RPMs bouncing around up to 50 is normal. I don't believe that but I am stuck with this unit so I'll have to live with it. Maybe it will self learn its way to a more steady RPM.
It's actually raining this weekend in the bay area for a change so I plan to drive the hell out of it when it clears up (topless now).
I will report back after I put a couple hundred miles on it. almost three tanks of gas fooling around with the idle. Hope this isn't a sign of future mileage!
Thanks as always for all the replies!

 

[bteutsch]

Thanks for the update! I've been following your saga, I mean progress, closely. Glad to hear you are making progress. I really want to hear this system is working well because I really thought it would be a nice upgrade. Plus I'm getting close to saving enough to take the plunge. Keep the updates coming, really interested in your mileage before and after the swap.

 

[m_m70]

Saga-Progress at least it seems to be going in the right direction. I know you and a few others have been following this so I didn't want to let it die. The more searching I have done on this product the more I found out that there is not a lot of info out there yet and mostly what is out there is incomplete (no real conclusions in the threads). Therefore, I will keep this thread going until I am happy with the product or take it off and move in another direction.

 

[WheelHorse]

So this system still has you utilizing your stock Ford distributor, correct?

Before you went to e-street, what was your base timing set at with the manual choke carb?

Ideally, and I know most make the jump because they can't tune a carb, but if she ran well with a carb, it would have been nice to have logged the AFR before making the switch. This way, by process of good ole garage engineering, you know where the AFR had to be (as a target) when you pulled the manual choke closed and where she purred on a cold start. This way, you would know a strong target area that your engine liked before hand.

The biggest rule of tuning is give an engine what it likes, dyno-proven of course. I've seen way too many say well the book says...ya well, the book isn't the dyno.

 

[m_m70]

Timing was set at 14* with the carb it's utilizing a pertronix ignitor in a flamethrower distributor. I also hooked up a multi spark box because I happen to have one in the garage and we thought we would get a better tach signal. The box didn't make a difference but I left it in anyway.
I didn't have a 02 sensor hooked up or any other way to check the afr with the carb so I have no idea what it was then. Wish I did%)
I installed this system not so much because I can't tune a carb but more because I got tired of re-tuning the carb for elevation swings. Most drives in my truck are from sea level to 7,500' and changing the rods and springs, while easy enough, just got old.
I do believe it will work out and it just needs to be dialed in and driven.
Also, I totally agree with giving an engine what it wants. Hell, if it won't run when set up "by the book" what good is it right?

Good times!

 

[WheelHorse]

Any luck with those cold starts?

 

[m_m70]

The cold starts have been better. I'm sure I had a vacuum leak on the bottom end of the intake because changing that out helped with the popping out the exhaust and low vacuum numbers when cold. Haven't had it out on the street yet though. Planning on driving this weekend and will post how that goes.

 

[bteutsch]

Any opinions on how it's going so far? Still running the EFI?

 

[m_m70]

just finished a rewire with the AAW harness so the truck was down for a while. Just took it out yesterday for a 20 mile drive and the efi seems to be working better now. I have the timing set at 20* @ 800rpm idle. That gives me the highest most steady vacuum reading of 19+. I might bump it down to 18* just because I fear 20 is too high.
The balancer is new so I know it hasn't slipped. I have been told that you can run your timing more advanced with the efi. I didn't notice any pinging when out yesterday but with no top and loud exhaust it's tough to hear.
I will be taking it out again later today and let you know how today goes. Planning on taking it to WH roundup this weekend. little over 100 miles each way so I will have my fingers crossed that there will be no issues%)

 

[bteutsch]

Thanks for the update!!

 

[m_m70]

OK finally had some time for this.
Got the system to work good by:
AFR
idle @ 13.7
cruise @ 14.5
wot @ 12.5

Base timing set to 20*btc
Advance springs - one silver (med), one copper (light) with 16* limiter bars so total timing all in at @ 36* @ 2700rpms.
Vacuum advance is hooked up but I have been told not to count that in total.
Pertronix Flamethrower distributor with ignitor 3 module
MSD 6al box with tach adaptor
plugs gapped at .045

Opinions - Time will tell really if this was a decent investment. I don't think I would do it over again for the cost of the unit. But I do have it set up in a way I could change back to a carb in under a half hour if need be. In fact I'm keeping a carb in my tool box in the truck as back up for now.
In my case it was not as simple/easy as for some others.

Thank you all for your help and comments. I got more support from you all then the company that built this unit and I really appreciate that!

Cheers,
Mike

 

[bteutsch]

Glad its working!!!

 

[bteutsch]

Did you notice any improvement in gas mileage?

 

[m_m70]

Not really but I haven't put much more than a couple hundred miles on it. Averaging around 12 miles per gallon. I was getting 14 to 15 with a two barrel carb. I drove it close to a hundred miles yesterday. I think I may have to still make some adjustments. Pulling into my garage the idle was up to around 1100rpms. Kind of tired of messing with it so I gave it a rest today. I'll fire it up tomorrow and see where it's at. Edelbrock tech supports standard answer for any issues are "it may just need more time to learn". So with that being said, I'll just run it for a thousand or so miles an if it doesn't get better or more consistent, toss the carb back on it and take the rather significant loss.
I know most have had good luck with this system and I am not bashing it. It just doesn't seem get along with my current setup and I'm tired of messing with it.