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Vibration/Shutter?

rydog1130

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Ok, so Bronco has been running great but Ive noticed it has a weird vibration that starts when I get up to about 35 mph then disappears after 40 mph on up. It's almost like an out of balance tire but not sure because my Honda had a similar issue at 60-65 mph and it turned out to be a bad brake caliper. I have a c4 auto, car was in 2w, hubs not locked. I haven't tried running in it in individual gears. My C4 has a dual port modulator as it came off a bronco with emissions. I currently have both vac lines from the modulator run to the manifold on the block (not sure if this is relevant but Id thought Id share). Other small issues Ive noticed but don't think they related is I noticed I have a small leak on my drivers side axel at the knuckle but its minimal. My oil pressure I've noticed runs at about 40 under speed (35-65mph) but If at park it drops to 20 (is that normal?) oil level is good on the stick, oh and truck has all new wheel bearings and u joints
 
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blubuckaroo

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A common source of the heebie jeebies is a worn out centering bearing in the driveline double cardan joint. Why not try pulling the rear driveline out and take it for a spin in front wheel drive? If the shake goes away, you've already got the driveline out to fix it. Also, you can still drive the Bronco to work till it gets fixed.
It's not a difficult or expensive job either. It's a good opportunity to replace the U-Joints too.
https://www.tomsbroncoparts.com/pro...t-spicer-style-front-or-rear-early-bronco-new

Also, check the slip joint for slop. That can cause a shake too.
 
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rydog1130

rydog1130

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A common source of the heebie jeebies is a worn out centering bearing in the driveline double cardan joint. Why not try pulling the rear driveline out and take it for a spin in front wheel drive? If the shake goes away, you've already got the driveline out to fix it. Also, you can still drive the Bronco to work till it gets fixed.
It's not a difficult or expensive job either. It's a good opportunity to replace the U-Joints too.
https://www.tomsbroncoparts.com/pro...t-spicer-style-front-or-rear-early-bronco-new

Also, check the slip joint for slop. That can cause a shake too.

ok good idea Ill check that out. I did have my drive shafts gone over and the U-joints replaced. It could be the slip joint maybe. Thank for the info! Also heebie jeebies sounds scary, lol! This is a mild vibration/rumble that you can feel but its only around 35 mph then once you hit 40 its gone.
 

DirtDonk

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...Ive noticed it has a weird vibration that starts when I get up to about 35 mph then disappears after 40 mph on up.

First thing I think of with a lifted EB is rear pinion angle. But this is usually a vibration under deceleration and consistent at most speeds. Not coming and going as you pass through a normal speed range.
I would definitely check the CV setup as mentioned. As well as anything else with the shaft "while it's out" as we like to say!

My C4 has a dual port modulator as it came off a bronco with emissions. I currently have both vac lines from the modulator run to the manifold on the block (not sure if this is relevant but Id thought Id share).

I think that's a good thing to mention. No idea if it's right or wrong, but maybe someone that's more familiar with the differences will let us know.

Other small issues Ive noticed but don't think they related is I noticed I have a small leak on my drivers side axel at the knuckle but its minimal.

How old are the wheel bearings? Didn't we talk about your bearings recently? I don't remember, but they are definitely worth looking into if you don't know their age.
They should be replaced not long after 100k miles (or 30 years!) to avoid a real mess.

My oil pressure I've noticed runs at about 40 under speed (35-65mph) but If at park it drops to 20 (is that normal?) oil level is good on the stick, oh and truck has all new wheel bearings and u joints

Are you using a thinner-ish oil, such as a 10w/30 or so? If so, that's a perfectly normal pressure reading. If you had something like a 20w/50 in there, I'd say it's a bit low for a good tight engine.
But even then it's still well within normal parameters and very safe. If you ever see less then 10psi per 1000rpm, you can start to be concerned. But anything above that is cake.

I did have my drive shafts gone over and the U-joints replaced.

Hmm, did you put them back in yourself? Did you notice any of the joints were tight in their sockets? I still see pro mechanics skip that last step of freeing up (centering) each joint in it's yoke so there is no binding. This does not usually end up as a vibration, but it's not a best practice either.

And how tight did you clamp down on the u-joint u-bolts? Supposed to be something light, like 10-15 lbs or something like that. Tighter can literally crimp the caps and bind the bearings.

It could be the slip joint maybe.

Doubt it. Unless it's damaged/bent, I don't see the slip causing the trouble you describe. But then again, driveshafts do the craziest things!

Could even be the tires. Not just a balance thing, but just tires if they're aggressive mud terrain types.

Paul
 
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rydog1130

rydog1130

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First thing I think of with a lifted EB is rear pinion angle. But this is usually a vibration under deceleration and consistent at most speeds. Not coming and going as you pass through a normal speed range.
I would definitely check the CV setup as mentioned. As well as anything else with the shaft "while it's out" as we like to say!

Truck isn't lifted but ill try the drive shaft like mentioned before


How old are the wheel bearings? Didn't we talk about your bearings recently? I don't remember, but they are definitely worth looking into if you don't know their age.
They should be replaced not long after 100k miles (or 30 years!) to avoid a real mess.

Wheel bearings all brand new on all 4 wheels and seals!

Are you using a thinner-ish oil, such as a 10w/30 or so? If so, that's a perfectly normal pressure reading. If you had something like a 20w/50 in there, I'd say it's a bit low for a good tight engine.
But even then it's still well within normal parameters and very safe. If you ever see less then 10psi per 1000rpm, you can start to be concerned. But anything above that is cake.

yup running 10w/30 ok thanks wasn't sure

Hmm, did you put them back in yourself? Did you notice any of the joints were tight in their sockets? I still see pro mechanics skip that last step of freeing up (centering) each joint in it's yoke so there is no binding. This does not usually end up as a vibration, but it's not a best practice either.

And how tight did you clamp down on the u-joint u-bolts? Supposed to be something light, like 10-15 lbs or something like that. Tighter can literally crimp the caps and bind the bearings.

I farmed the drive shafts out to a local guy who is a huge EB nut in our area and I do remember now him telling me when I got them back he was able fix them except for one spot that he said had a little play but thought overall it was still in good shape, what that area was I don't remember because it was 3 years ago. i'll call him and see if he remembers


Doubt it. Unless it's damaged/bent, I don't see the slip causing the trouble you describe. But then again, driveshafts do the craziest things!

Could even be the tires. Not just a balance thing, but just tires if they're aggressive mud terrain types.

maybe, these are the first things im going to look at

Paul

Thanks Paul I'll also see if I can get a video of it!
 
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rydog1130

rydog1130

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I did a little test, instead of pulling everything I thought what if I let it coast downhill from 20 mph up to 45 mph and see if I get the vibration. Well, no vibration it only does it under power...I'm a little stumped.
 

WheelHorse

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Does it vibrate 70-80 mph?

I would check the DS for slop.

You could also put it up on jackstands and run it up to 35 and look at the shaft and see if you see it signwave. typically you could use a yellow crayon and slowly moved it up to the shaft and see if it only marks on one side of the shaft.
 

Apogee

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...how about at 120 MPH? Just kidding, but for arguments sake, I've had similar oddball vibrations at one specific speed that were tire related (split seam, bruise, bubble, etc). I'd probably get the balance on the tires checked and at least rule that out, since it's probably good for the tires anyway.

If you'd prefer a free option to begin with, pulling the rear shaft would be as good as any place to start.
 
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rydog1130

rydog1130

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Does it vibrate 70-80 mph?

I would check the DS for slop.

You could also put it up on jackstands and run it up to 35 and look at the shaft and see if you see it signwave. typically you could use a yellow crayon and slowly moved it up to the shaft and see if it only marks on one side of the shaft.

I haven't driven it that fast...fastest ive gone is about 60 mph...my speedo is off by 5 so technically 55mph...if that vibration reappears at double the speed you think it might be DS related?
 

DirtDonk

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...instead of pulling everything I thought what if I let it coast downhill from 20 mph up to 45 mph and see if I get the vibration. Well, no vibration it only does it under power...I'm a little stumped.

It's a legitimate "what if" test, but it also didn't really narrow it down much.
Still could be a rear end gear issue.
Still could be a tire issue.
Still could be a driveshaft issue.
Still could be an engine/trans part touching sheet metal.

Don't know what, if anything having both modulator lines connected to full vacuum would do, but maybe one of the C4 gurus here can shed some light on that.

Maybe have the tires checked and rotated to see if it changes the frequency/amplitude/speed at which the vibration occurs.
I forget if you said you have a body lift, but if so you should check that nothing is rubbing on sheet metal. Including the back of the driver's side cylinder heat and transfer case shifter(s).

Paul
 
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rydog1130

rydog1130

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It's a legitimate "what if" test, but it also didn't really narrow it down much.
Still could be a rear end gear issue.
Still could be a tire issue.
Still could be a driveshaft issue.
Still could be an engine/trans part touching sheet metal.

Don't know what, if anything having both modulator lines connected to full vacuum would do, but maybe one of the C4 gurus here can shed some light on that.

Maybe have the tires checked and rotated to see if it changes the frequency/amplitude/speed at which the vibration occurs.
I forget if you said you have a body lift, but if so you should check that nothing is rubbing on sheet metal. Including the back of the driver's side cylinder heat and transfer case shifter(s).

Paul

Well, I swapped out the dual port for a single port modulator but I haven't driven it yet but when you mention rubbing my exhaust does run pretty close to the transfer case. I don't think its rubbing but would warrant further investigation if this new vac mod doesn't solve the problem. Our big event is coming up in a few weeks. I'll get one of the bronco gurus I know to take a spin in it with me and see what they think....
 
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rydog1130

rydog1130

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ok, took it back out on the road and had real head scratcher....i only went about 3 miles, got on a paved road opened it up no problems except for that vibration. I slowed down to the speed where it was and held the throttle to maintain the speed and vibration to try and pin point maybe where it was coming from. Well, the vibration got worse as i held it so i slowed down to about 10 mph but could still feel it even then. I tried to get back up to speed but the truck just wouldn't do it and that damn vibration wouldn't go away. I let off the gas and the truck which normally will accelerate once put in gear came to a stop without touching the brakes. It felt like i had a stuck caliper. I crept along the side of the road at about 5 mph because at this point im not sure whats going on with this thing but I know its not right. I tried putting it in reverse a few times and backing up but that did nothing. I pulled back off the road after about 2 - 300 yard attempts and called my dad to bring some tools. I turned the truck off and waited about ten minutes until i see my dad turn down the wrong road (he doesn't carry a cell phone ) so im like great, I gotta drive this thing another 300 yards so he'll see me at the intersection. I go to start the car and it cranks for about 5-8 sec before it fires up sluggishly but starts and begins to run fine (normally it fires right up). Anyways, I start driving towards the intersection and Im not feeling any drag, truck is accelerating with the idle and not slowing down, basically its back to acting i guess its normal self.... I caught unto my dad and drove it home with no issues....what the hell happened??:??:??:??:? something bound up or maybe my push rod is to far out causing a brake to hang up?...but for it to go away after sitting for 10 minutes has me puzzled....Ive taken it on longer drives with nothing like this before....
 

SteveL

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This is for your leak at the knuckle. Unless itsps fluid dripping from above its most likely gear oil from a leaky inner axle seal. Not a big deal just check the fluid level once in a while or when you're gonna lock in the front end. Other option is brake fluid. That could be a failing caliper or wheel cylinder. Or a failing or loose brake line. Either of which I would find and fix. A sniff test should let you know what the fluid is pretty easy.
 
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rydog1130

rydog1130

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This is for your leak at the knuckle. Unless itsps fluid dripping from above its most likely gear oil from a leaky inner axle seal. Not a big deal just check the fluid level once in a while or when you're gonna lock in the front end. Other option is brake fluid. That could be a failing caliper or wheel cylinder. Or a failing or loose brake line. Either of which I would find and fix. A sniff test should let you know what the fluid is pretty easy.

Yeah the knuckle leak is def 90 weigh oil. I notice it only leaks if it parked on unlevel surface... level surface no leak. It bums me out because I just replaced all the seals and bearings on that axel. Is it possible to over fill those, I put enough oil in there till it wanted to gush back out and quickly put the plug back in. Other question on that, previous owner has the vent tubes on both diffs capped, is that ok?

Next time I'm up im going to remove the drive shaft put it in 4h and see if that changes anything....I'll keep you posted. Dirt Donk asked if it might be my rear diff. I inspected it and it looked good when I tore the rear axel apart. Here's a pic of it and maybe you guys can tell me other wise...

IMG_8686.jpg
 
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rydog1130

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UPDATE:

So i think I figured out this issue was a combination of a bunch of small issues making it seem like one big issue. I believe I've pin pointed the vibration. I had a friend who's a really good mechanic come over to help me give the bronco a tune up since I noticed the engine developed a misfire during all of this. I had him help me check the plugs and we ended up just swapping them all out for new ones. Plugs 3,4,6,and 8 were fouled pretty bad ( i think they might have been dropped) but while we were doing that I told him about the hum so he crawled under the truck and said "hey guess what?" "your drive shaft has little play in the CV" and went on to explain that under load you'll feel a vibration and when you let off the gas it will disappear. It makes sense because when I had new U joints put in I remember now the guy that rebuilt it told me the CV had a little play in it and there wasn't much he could do for it since there's an extension or protrusion that's apart of the housing that holds it all together was worn. So....new drive shaft I guess is in the works for down the road...

Truck Stopping not wanting to go....could be two things vapor lock or stuck caliper....I noticed my gas cap is really really hard to get off when I've refueled so I don't think my tank was venting appropriately. Tom from the bronco ranch advised I could drill a small hole in the upper portion of my filler neck...done. Second issue caliper dragging...I adjusted my push rod back a few turns so hopefully that will help. I took it for a spin after these two adjustments and it seemed fine other than the mis fire that developed which is why I mentioned above changing out the plugs.

So we finished up about 11 pm last night which was too late to take it for a spin but the truck sounded beautiful when we fired it up. Fingers crossed the issues are resolved!I'll keep you up to date!

IMG_4205.jpg
 
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rydog1130

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problemed solved... vibration = bad drive shaft. other issue vapor lock ....
 
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