VW TDI swap in a bronco????

[eou_edu]

Hello bronco forum! I'm a brand spanking newbie and come right out of the chute asking a question like this. I see a lot of you swap the cummins 6b and 4b.........That would be nice, but I also think 40 mpg from a vw TDI would be cool too. I know where I can get a parts jetta tdi for cheap. I've always loved classic broncos but have still yet to own my first. I do give myself enough credit to say this is beyond the "wouldn't it be cool" dreaming stage. It's now in the "I've done reserch and I think I could actually do this," stage. Stock the TDI has more power than the 170, a few mods it approaches the 289 or 302 with a ton of extra torque. Adapter availible to mate to a toyota 5 speed, then keep the yota case and adapt the driveline to the rest of the bronco. What are all your thoughts? Possible? Comparable $$wise to other swaps?

 

[jjwtwice]

Extreme 4x4 did this in a jeep. I don't see why it wouldn't work in a bronco.

 

[nrramse]

You would definitely have the only one in the neighborhood! I look forward to seeing this thread develop.

Newell

 

[TBS-POPS]

VW TDI's belong in ZUKI's NOT BRONCOS!!! A Bronco is AMERICAN IRON. Keep it that way!!!Some would think your idea is neat but MOST would just shake their head and walk away thinking what kind of IDIOT would butcher up a part of 4 wheeling history with that kind of engine!! JMO

You wont get the 40mpg you want because your power to weight ratio will be adversly affected as well as a Bronco has the aerodynamics of a brick!! A friend of mine has a 4BT conversion and is getting 25-28 mpg as a DD back and fourth to work. Sees 30 on long fwy trips.

 

[ET]

I didn't watch the vw swap but that's where I would start first. contact expreme4x4. If you got the skills and $$$$, you can put any motor in there you want. I don't see the advantage of swapping a vw tdi verse 4bt/isuzu other then the wow factor. Are you going to do this yourself or having a shop do this?

Eugene

 

[Nobody]

I have a TDI Jetta for commuting, and it can't get out of it's own way, much less in a bronco.

 

[Broncobowsher]

The little 4-cylinder VW engine wouldn't do good in a Bronco. Remember that it is a good replacment fir the 1.3 liter engine in a Zuk and the HP doesn't change much and there is half the weight then a basic Bronco.

But if you want to swap a VW diesel, find one of the Toureg diesels. Then find one that has been tuned. That would make a nice swap into a Bronco. It would be a pain, probably be forced to keep the VW trans, countless other issues as well.

 

[needabronco]

First off the TDI is an adverse mount deal. You'd have a tough time finding any adapters. The RPM/power band is way different. And like said you won't have any power. The TDI conversion you refer to was in a suzuki, a good swap for a 2000 pound rig, not a 5000 lb rig with 35's....

Have you researched exactly how much it'll cost you to get decent power out of one? I'd be willing to bet you'd be better off building a nice V8 or a 4BT, and still be ahead.

Good luck with it if you want. I'd be interested to see how it goes in.

 

[65 mustang]

I thought about this one for some time as well.Cute little quiet turbo diesel in a bronco. Cool except what trans and t.c.?The electronics?The differance in weight? I'll stick with my 302.. Scott

 

[TN1776]

I can't see this working well for the same reasons as listed above. There is a part of me that wishes I'd done a Cummins 4BT in my rig rather than my gas guzzling 351w, but I sure do like the feeling when my secondaries open...

 

[eou_edu]

In theory I'd much rather have a loud V-8 to play with. but if I had that I couldn't justify it at all. I actually make my own biodiesel so that's why I look at the diesel option. I have a big dodge cummins for big truck fun. But need to use a little less diesel to my source of cooking I make it out of.......

As far as adapters go there are out there about $800 for everything to bolt up to a toyota 5 speed. Mouting it all, I would have to fabricate.

Anyway here's some research I've done. These are all rough estimates. on what I have. Weight I would save and can save with the conversion.

Jetta TDI= 3100 lbs
Bronco = 4500 lbs
TDI in 302 out weight savings = 125 lbs
Toyota T case swap from dana 20 = 100 lbs
tranny weight savings = 20 lbs
Soft top from hard top = 150 lbs
replace steel wheels with Alloy wheels = 40 lbs
Remove spare tire and mounting hardware = 20 lbs

= 4045 lbs. I'm thinking about swapping the rear and front ends for an another. About 900 lbs more than a jetta tdi.

The 4bt cummins 145 horsepower. Jetta tdi 90 hp stock, rated at 51 mpg hwy. Propane (I have a kit for free) but $400 adds 30 hp. Injectors 20 hp, $50. Performance computer 25 hp $500. K and N and bigger exhaust 10 hp, $300. Dual friction clutch $200.

$1050 and 175 hp, but probably won't go with all this. This going by the low ball estimate of manufactors claims. Also doesn't account for how much torque increase, I'm sure there will be lots though.

Donor Toyota and Jetta TDI $1000 assuming I can buy two parts cars off cl for this and resell what I don't use.

So there it all is. I think I may get almost 40 mpg after the swap, accounting for extra weight, wind resistance and the non stock parts. Still just in the thinking research stage. Still might go with the cummins swap, Who knows. It's still just in the thinking/research stage.

 

[needabronco]

Sound like you just need to buy a toyota and save yourself alot of headache and work...

 

[Broncobowsher]

Jetta tdi 90 hp stock, rated at 51 mpg hwy.

A Jetta is a knife through the wind, a Bronco is a parachute. 40 MPG is not even close to realistic. VW has so many advantages in drag (aero and rolling) that you can't come close to comparing them.

Stock Bronco with an I6 170 made 105 HP and your target is less then that.
Your plans are so weight restricted that a large part of your weight savings is the wheel material. I have a spare 5HP Briggs and Stratton engine in the garage, I am sure I could use it to drive the Bronco if I was determined enough to, just need enough gearing and time.

Now if you had a bone stock, no lift, original tire bronco that never needed to get to highway speed, the VW TDI engine might get it around town.

Keep in mind that we pointed out that for it to work good offroad it should be in a Sami that would tip the scales just over 2000 pounds. I can't expect anything except misery in a Bronco that has been put on a diet to get it down to twice what the Samuri would weigh.

 

[ET]

Your estimate will most likely double or even triple. Don't be surprised. Even w/4bt swap, I've spent 2x more then I estimated.

Have you researched running biodiesel on a tdi? Most what I've read don't like it unless it's lower percentage, < b20. Then you have to make sure your fuel system will hand it. The only reason I did the swap is because I'm making my own fuel. If I wasn't, I'd probably be driving the bronco today then have it sit in the garage. Short term it's not going to pay off but long run, I'm hoping to break even. One thing I know is the older diesel motor is more forgiving on home made biodiesel. Which is one of the reason I picked a 4bt.

Eugene

 

[1975stroppebaja]

Jetta TDI= 3100 lbs
Bronco = 4500 lbs
TDI in 302 out weight savings = 125 lbs
Toyota T case swap from dana 20 = 100 lbs
tranny weight savings = 20 lbs
Soft top from hard top = 150 lbs
replace steel wheels with Alloy wheels = 40 lbs
Remove spare tire and mounting hardware = 20 lbs

= 4045 lbs. I'm thinking about swapping the rear and front ends for an another. About 900 lbs more than a jetta tdi.

Not gonna be much of a Bronco left in that setup is there? You could just swap out the Bronco body and frame for a Sami and save another 2K pounds.. that would put you in the ballpark.

 

[eou_edu]

Samuri's are around 2200 lbs bone stock soft top. Very few people keep them bone stock. To make them even touch off pavement, you need to at least add 800 lbs in upgrades, IMO. Which by that time your only 800 lbs less than a bronco and still less capable.

Wind resistance is a factor as well as weight. That's why I figured a 20% loss in mpg from what the 3100 lbs jetta weight, for 40 mpg. The bronco on a diet would weigh 20% more than the jetta and roughly a 5% difference in drag coefficent (wind resistance). As horsepower increases, those two factors matter less. According to all the manufactors all of those performance parts they all increase fuel mileage chip, injectors, propane, exhaust and k and N, while bringing up the total to around 175 hp. Real world I'd be happy with 150 hp and a slight MPG increase ..............Theoretically, it works. Practically since nobody has done it yet, I guess I will just have to see.

Biodiesel in a TDI. I've done a lot of research on this. The short answer is, yes they will handle biodiesel, very well if it's good quality and you do it right. A few guys a while back ran lousy bidiesel in a tdi with the old injector pumps and ruined their engines.

Thanks for all your feedback. I like people telling me why it's a bad idea, gives me ideas on what I should think about and maybe not try. I don't really care about the "first on the block" factor, so I just may well go with the 4bt swap. Still thinking and still researching, we'll see where I come out.

 

[Viperwolf1]

The bronco on a diet would weigh 20% more than the jetta and roughly a 5% difference in drag coefficent (wind resistance).

I think you forgot a few zeros in the drag difference.

Part of me says "there's no way this is going to work well and you will waste time and money by trying". Another part of me says "what the heck, give it your best shot. It's a learning exercise and it may help to jumpstart the economy".

 

[Broncobowsher]

You are scraping to kill weight in a Bronco, but blindly claim that any Samuri that touches dirt needs an extra 800 pounds of gear to do so...



OK, I give up. You talk loud, do it. We will believe you once it has been done. Until then any of use who have spent time running Broncos around will doubt it.

The 5% drag difference wouldn't even cover the added rolling resistance of the tires on the Bronco, muchless the drivetrain. Aero drag, Bronco easly has twice the drag of the VW. The Cd number is probably about double and teh frontal area is close to double as well. The closest thing to aerodynamics on a bronco is the windshield is laid back 30° instaed of vertical. But you don't really get any gain until 45°. Even then you have teh roof protruding in front of the windshield frame. Oh, remove the hard top, forgot. Fabric is more aerodynamic then metal? Why do the MX-5 racers all race with the heavier hard tops instead of the soft tops which is allowed? Oh that's right the hard top is heavier but the areodynamics of a hard top are better and the top speed on the straights is higher, might take a little more time to get out of the hole, but they outrun on the top side. Another way of looking at it, soft tops are noiser. Noise is a form of energy. Take energy to make the noise that you wouldn't have on a hard top.

I can tell you really want ot do this. You stretch the numbers so far in the direction you sant them to go. You really want to convince yourself that this will work. You really should be a salesman.

 

[73azbronco]

I usually like to see guys try stuff, but please do the math using physics and thermodynamics.

Your off on your estimates; if a Zuk weighs 800# less ( I bet well over 1,000 less) then your not just going to have 20% less mileage because it weighs 20% more, physics/thermodynamics doesn't work that way. Your foot doesn't work that way.

Your more than likely many factors less in MPG, I say 80% less, yes 10 MPG with your proposed swap. I know because I have had a VW TDI, you can watch the instantaneous MPG on the computer, if I kept my foot into it, it would be about 8-12mpg. Your foot will be into it...

Since you weigh 20% more with 33% less power, a few things will happen. One, you will be driving around with your foot on the floor resulting in sub 10MPG fuel use. Two, you'll try to conserve and end up being hated by every driver who passes you because your so slow, you'll be lucky to top 50MPH, right where the drag kicks in. Three, you will seriously wear the little motor demanding more than it was designed to give. Four, if your using it around town, staying under 45mph, you may like it, it may give you 20MPG.

I think your best bet would be to use a deisel which provides the Tq you need, not a motor which may end up costing you lots of time and money.

Lastly, good luck, keep us updated.

 

[ET]

Too me, I think you've made up your mind. The only way to really know is to do the conversion. I look forward to reading about it.

Eugene