Was there ever one built by Ford?

[ared77]

Saw this question on another forum. I doubt it ever was built.

Thought I'd ask the experts.

Anyone know of this?

"Is anyone on this forum familiar with there being a 1970 Boss 302 Bronco prototype?"

 

[Classic 4x4]

Not something I've ever heard about. Doesn't seem likely, given Ford conservative approach to 1st Gen Bronco powertrains. It's certainly not something Ford would likely have built for public consumption either (can you imagine Bubba with a Boss 302 Bronco?), so it doesn't get high marks on the initial logic test. A concept vehicle of some type is a possibility but you'd think something that whizbang would be well remembered.

In my experience researching vehicles, these kinds of stories pop up often. As an auto industry historian who is forced to put stuff down on paper (for people to ridicule later if it's wrong), I have been bitten in the ass in both directions. You can get chomped by either dismissing a seemingly wild-ass story too hastily or glomming on before the story is confirmed. For me, the bigger bite marks have come from glomming on too soon. It's something I would put on a "Lore and Legend: To be Confirmed" list. Which I did!

 

[Broncobowsher]

Working in the industery I can say it is entirely possible that it may have been done as an un-official project. Couple of people who had a Bronco shop truck, old test car going to scrap, take a day or two and drop it in. Not official, not approved, no intention of anything production. This stuff did happen and still happens. Officially it never happened, but it is entirely possible that it was done anyway.

 

[rmk57]

Very doubtful. Could you even get factory 4 bbl on 289/302 Bronco?

 

[Classic 4x4]

Sure, anything is "possible" but without documentation or more information to go on, all we can really comment upon is: "Is it likely?"

IMO, no. But who knows?

With so little information to go on, when you get right down to it, this discussion is just a Bronco circle jerk... and I'm saying that to be funny, not to piss anyone off (wow, two penile related jibes in one sentence). It's fun to speculate and dream about stuff like this. The problems arise when unsubstantiated stuff rises to the Lore and Legend status and is given more weight than it deserves. On the internet, that really doesn't matter much and the worst that happens is a guy gets flamed a little if it's incorrect. When a writer like me puts it down on paper, and it's proven to be incorrect, I get my liver ripped out ( : < 0) by the righteous protectors of the Bronco flame! So, yeah, I look at it a little differently.

I have studied a number of manufacturers (worked for one) and gotten deeply into their innermost workings. Yep, they all did a lot of playing around at different times but I have heard literally thousands of similar stories and if any verifiable information emerges at all, 90-95 percent of the time the stories get debunked. Still, you have to pay attention because there is that 5-10 percent of the time when the story is true or mostly true. When that happens, to paraphrase Dave Bowman, "It's wonderful!" Plus, going down the road to knowledge is fun IMO.

I've become an historian: I don't care about being "right" but I hate being wrong. My goal is to be correct.

 

[Scoop]

Jim, what do you know about the rumored 100 or so early Broncos with factory installed Pony interiors? Supposedly some were made in 66 or 67 (?) due to a shortage of standard Bronco seat upholstery. There are a number of Broncos with the Pony seats which owners claim are original. But I've not seen this confirmed or debunked.

 

[Classic 4x4]

Jim, what do you know about the rumored 100 or so early Broncos with factory installed Pony interiors? Supposedly some were made in 66 or 67 (?) due to a shortage of standard Bronco seat upholstery. There are a number of Broncos with the Pony seats which owners claim are original. But I've not seen this confirmed or debunked.

I know they existed and have confirmed one. Tim Hulick recently found another and has convincing evidence it's original. The 100 number... no concrete info on that part of it. Both are '66s. Another thing to follow up on and yet another deeply regretful circumstance when '66 Martis would prove invaluable.

If they were '67 too, and someone has one, a Marti should confirm it.

 

[half cab]

There is a '66 U14 out there somewhere that I put pony seats in like in 1979 am sure the peeps that have owned it since think they are original.

 

[toddz69]

Saw this question on another forum. I doubt it ever was built.

Thought I'd ask the experts.

Anyone know of this?

"Is anyone on this forum familiar with there being a 1970 Boss 302 Bronco prototype?"

The question may have come up because of the recent surfacing of this truck...

I don't know if it ever had a Boss 302 in it, but this Bronco recently came up for air and it has a very Boss-esque stripe on it. Research has shown that it was built with Bill Stroppe's help at Kar Kraft (Ford skunk works - where the Boss 429s were assembled, amongst many other cool projects) in early 1970. It has a Stroppe roll bar, dual shocks front and rear, and originally had a front bumper with holes in it for bumper braces. It sat on chrome steelies and Gates Commando tires like the early Baja Broncos. And they did a Mustang C4 conversion with the floor shifter like Stroppe did in some early trucks. The Marti has revealed that it was a Ford Motor Company truck - never went to a dealer.

It has a 351 in it and stock EB power steering and power brakes were added at some later point in time.

A neat, clean rig with some cool history that is still being researched.

Todd Z.

 

[Rustytruck]

Back in the day that would have put the sport in the Bronco instead of just chrome addons. I would have figured if there was any involvement with a new Boss 302 Bronco, Stroppe would have been involved. With or without Fords blessing.

 

[Classic 4x4]

There is a '66 U14 out there somewhere that I put pony seats in like in 1979 am sure the peeps that have owned it since think they are original.

And that's a very good reason why this should be looked at in a skeptical manner. The one I know was an original owner rig who actually worked at Ford in the day and I was able to talk to him, look at the Bronco, experience the patina, the provenance etc. He couldn't shed any light on how it came to be but it was clear the seats were original to the Bronco. Hulick's discovery seems to have equally good provenance and I trust Tim's skeptical judgment on that.

If everyone with a supposed Pony interior-equipped Bronco listed their VIN, especially if it was a '67 or later, we might get to the bottom of this.

 

[Classic 4x4]

The question may have come up because of the recent surfacing of this truck...

I don't know if it ever had a Boss 302 in it, but this Bronco recently came up for air and it has a very Boss-esque stripe on it. Research has shown that it was built with Bill Stroppe's help at Kar Kraft (Ford skunk works - where the Boss 429s were assembled, amongst many other cool projects) in early 1970. It has a Stroppe roll bar, dual shocks front and rear, and originally had a front bumper with holes in it for bumper braces. It sat on chrome steelies and Gates Commando tires like the early Baja Broncos. And they did a Mustang C4 conversion with the floor shifter like Stroppe did in some early trucks. The Marti has revealed that it was a Ford Motor Company truck - never went to a dealer.

It has a regular 302 in it and stock EB power steering and power brakes were added at some later point in time.

A neat, clean rig with some cool history that is still being researched.

Todd Z.

Interesting! Has the Marti been posted? Do you know what the research consists of? Such as anecdotal versus documents, etc? Early images?

The Boss engines were big-uns. Is anyone familiar enough to know how tough it would be getting a Boss into an EB.

Anyway, a Stroppe connection could add to the possibility of it being a real deal.

 

[hyghlndr]

The Boss engines were big-uns. Is anyone familiar enough to know how tough it would be getting a Boss into an EB.

Don't think that is correct. The engine would easily fit, the Boss 302 is a 289/302 with 351 heads and isn't a big motor...now the Boss 429 is a big motor.

I would guess that it was done as an unofficial project or private swap. That said every once in a while the stories are true like the 1967 Shelby convertible prototype, late Boss 351s and the Ford family Mustang that had real leather & a ton of unique items like cast badges.

 

[toddz69]

Interesting! Has the Marti been posted? Do you know what the research consists of? Such as anecdotal versus documents, etc? Early images?

The Boss engines were big-uns. Is anyone familiar enough to know how tough it would be getting a Boss into an EB.

Anyway, a Stroppe connection could add to the possibility of it being a real deal.

The Marti has been purchased and received but not posted per the owner's request. I've seen two historical images of the truck. There is some documentation but I have not seen it. I know that research is continuing. The owner is like you and I - wants to figure out things with hard evidence and facts rather than just anecdotal stuff!

Todd Z.

 

[TheGanzman]

Here's a reality check from the 60 year old guy that's been messing with vehicles since he was 14 - Any "big/performance engine" that would have been done either by the factory or by a factory-authorized "skunk works" back in the day - be it Stroppe, Carroll Shelby, or others - would have also required additional items; to wit: frame stiffeners, bigger U-joints, 31 spline axles w/big bearings, driveshaft loops, HD springs (or the mentioned-elsewhere additional leaf on the right spring) etc. As such, regardless of whether or not the "original" Boss 302 was IN the barn-found Bronco, there would be additional "evidence" of these other items in my never-humble opinion...

Said my peace - now back to the rumor/speculation mill!

 

[toddz69]

Here's a photo of the truck back in the day at the time of its original build.

Todd Z.

 

[Classic 4x4]

That is too cool for the motor pool! That could have been a very nice look as a package!

 

[BajaBronco]

Looks great on Commandos. Neat find.

 

[elan]

The Bronco is on the modification list from Kar Kraft (Fran Hernandez). The owner claims to have hard evidence. On the modification list is 351 cu in. The Bronco was built/release 4/69.

Sooo in 69 there was no Boss 351, Ford didn't build that engine until late '70 for the '71 model year. My take is a Windsor 351 since the Cleveland 351 wasn't out then either.
If all of this comes to a verified fruition, I can only think this is right up there with the rarest of the Broncos. The connection with Kar Karft is a big deal.

I still pine for Garner/Patrick Bronco........but that will never happen.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Assuming that CarKraft only delt in production stuff and had no access to prototype materials.

But this is CarKraft, the company that did things like build all the Boss 429 mustangs. Even into the 21st century they were taking production Explorer engines and stripping them down to sell as long blocks in the Ford Motorsports catalogs. I got the last of the leftover installed but never run Explorer 5.0 crank damper/pulleys from them

It is completely possible that CarKraft got there hands on an early pre-production Boss engine. Engine development is not a short term R&D program. Validation is a lengthy process.