Was there ever one built by Ford?

[toddz69]

The Bronco is on the modification list from Kar Kraft (Fran Hernandez). The owner claims to have hard evidence. On the modification list is 351 cu in. The Bronco was built/release 4/69.

Sooo in 69 there was no Boss 351, Ford didn't build that engine until late '70 for the '71 model year. My take is a Windsor 351 since the Cleveland 351 wasn't out then either.
If all of this comes to a verified fruition, I can only think this is right up there with the rarest of the Broncos. The connection with Kar Karft is a big deal.

Your take is correct - the engine in the truck is a 351W.

Todd Z.

 

[toddz69]

Assuming that CarKraft only delt in production stuff and had no access to prototype materials.

But this is CarKraft, the company that did things like build all the Boss 429 mustangs. Even into the 21st century they were taking production Explorer engines and stripping them down to sell as long blocks in the Ford Motorsports catalogs. I got the last of the leftover installed but never run Explorer 5.0 crank damper/pulleys from them

It is completely possible that CarKraft got there hands on an early pre-production Boss engine. Engine development is not a short term R&D program. Validation is a lengthy process.

Two different companies. The Kar Kraft that built the Boss 429s and did this Bronco closed on December 6, 1970 (I was just informed!). The place that did the Explorer engine stuff was another outfit and according to some stuff on the internet got in some legal trouble a few years back.

There is some chattering among the intelligentsia on the internet that Kar Kraft really wasn't a separate company but truly a Ford-owned skunkworks. I don't know whether that's true or not.

Todd Z.

 

[BajaBronco]

I agree with elan. This is a very rare Bronco. The KarKraft connection I can see being big to a Mustang guy for sure! Should it be big to everyone? Maybe? Either way, it's a rare one-off like the Balloon Chase Ambulance.

 

[House]

I like it even better with the Stroppe parts and assistance in building... LOL

 

[DirtDonk]

Anybody know where that shot was taken? Looks like a bank with a drive-through teller window, but I wonder where exactly?

Love seeing those old Gates in their prime too!

Paul

 

[toddz69]

Unknown location but I noticed the building immediately and thought it looked like a bank too!

My guess is somewhere in the Detroit/Dearborn area.

Todd Z.

 

[half cab]

How long has drive through banking been around??

 

[AFLtCol]

Cool Bronco! I like the original stripping, how it lines up with the side marker compared to the stripping in the later photo.

 

[5001craig]

I remember drive-through banks back in the '70's but I thought that building looked new or at least newer. But brick is kinda timeless.

 

[half cab]

I remember drive-through banks back in the '70's but I thought that building looked new or at least newer. But brick is kinda timeless.

Yea I remember it showed up around here in the '70s,mid I think?

 

[Classic 4x4]

Going back to the engine question, a 351W swap is a much more likely suspect IMO. Ford, KarKraft, or whomever, would recognize it as a more suitable and practical 4x4 power plant than a Boss 302. This would be especially true if they were eyeing this as a possible package later on.

If the history of how the current engine was installed is not known, have the various numbers on the current engine been recorded and analyzed to date it? If the engine was built in the same timeframe, that could add weight to a theory that the 351W was the swap.

 

[DirtDonk]

I think right from the beginning of the use of the word Boss by Ford, there have always been people, whether associated with Ford or not, that started to use "Boss" to describe anything exciting, or something with more power or cool factor.
In this case it might just have been an extension of that desire, more than anything actually related to any of the Boss engines being installed.

Regarding the timeline of drive-throughs, I was going to say at least back to the mid-fifties if not earlier (edit: Depending on the source info, it either started in 1928 or 1946). But widespread use was more a mid to late-sixties kind of thing.
That building looks an awful lot like a correct vintage late-sixties or early-seventies construct to me. No direct evidence, just a general feeling from the pic.
Similar to what would be cropping up all over the central and east states. I've seen that style building brand new as late as the late-eighties and early nineties. As said, brick along with that relatively basic building design is kind of timeless.

But it's hard to really tell as some architectural details even varied by region with regards to when they started. Just "looks" seventies.

Interesting that this truck is such a late '69 build. Still interested to know when the changeover to the side-marker lights occured. This one appears to have the electric wipers, the large front turn signals, but still has the reflectors.
Saw one outfitted just the same a few days ago. Got the VIN, but no decoding info on the build date.

Sure be interesting to hear any of the Marti info from the one in question in this thread though. Hopefully the owner won't mind sharing some of it sometime.

Paul

 

[toddz69]

That building looks an awful lot like a correct vintage late-sixties or early-seventies construct to me. No direct evidence, just a general feeling from the pic.
Similar to what would be cropping up all over the central and east states.

Interesting that this truck is such a late '69 build. Still interested to know when the changeover to the side-marker lights occured. This one appears to have the electric wipers, the large front turn signals, but still has the reflectors.
Saw one outfitted just the same a few days ago. Got the VIN, but no decoding info on the build date.

Sure be interesting to hear any of the Marti info from the one in question in this thread though. Hopefully the owner won't mind sharing some of it sometime.

Paul

Paul: I had the same feeling on the building myself - seems to match a lot of that type of building in the midwest in the late 60s/early 70s. Just coming into vogue at that time.

I've never seen anything to contradict the documentation that the side marker lights started with the introduction of the '70 models. Bobby Franks had a '69 for sale on ebay a few months ago with the reflectors and as I recall it was a 6/25/69 build - adding credence to the assertion that all the '69s had reflectors.

If/when the owner gives permission, I'll post the Marti.

Todd Z.

 

[Classic 4x4]

I just looked up the engine tag number, and it decodes to an early 351W built for the 1969 model year. It has an unusual notation on the second line where the production year is listed- it reads "A6 K 210 S". Normally there is only a single number in that first space that corresponds to the year built, which would be a "9" for '69 or an "8" for '68. The "K" would indicate the build month, in this case November (but is it November '68 or '69?), the 210 is the code for a 351W 4-bbl. The "S" suffix.. I don't know.

Has anyone else seen a "A6" prefix on a 351W engine tag?

Since the engine dates to '69, early '69 possibly, that lends some weight to the theory that the major upgrade to make this rig "special" was the 351W.

 

[toddz69]

Since the engine dates to '69, early '69 possibly, that lends some weight to the theory that the major upgrade to make this rig "special" was the 351W.

My hunch is that it's a '69 351W from a Mustang application. The dipstick is in the timing cover like the car engines.

Todd Z.

 

[toddz69]

The owner has given permission to post the Marti.

Todd Z.

 

[jckkys]

Even in 1969 a 351w was a far better swap than a Boss 302. The 4bbl version was rated at 290 HP like the Boss. The RPMs had to be kept over 4000 to get any power with the Boss. The 351w had more torque at 2500 RPM than the Boss 302 had at 4200, where the torque peaked. The Boss 302 was a poor choice for a street Mustang and worse for a truck, especially a 4x4. They were offered solely to conform with Trans Am racing rules. The 4bbl Cleveland heads weren't much good on the 351C either. The Aussie 2bbl heads with closed chambers worked better for street and strip. The bigger is better thinking in ports and valves was pushed too far. I'd love to know why the 351w wasn't an option in EBs starting in '69. The expense would have been minimal.

 

[Viperwolf1]

I'd love to know why the 351w wasn't an option in EBs starting in '69. The expense would have been minimal.

At that time the Bronco had a better power to weight ratio than all competitive vehicles. There wasn't a need for more power. Even if they thought it was needed it may have required potential drivetrain upgrades that Ford wasn't willing to invest in at that point. The D30 was eventually upgraded but other weak points were not.

 

[bronconut73]

Nah....it doesn't look like a bank.....
Bank would have nice grass right?

Neat eb story though.

 

[half cab]

Building,released and sold on same day.