• Welcome to ClassicBroncos! - You are currently viewing the forums as a GUEST. To take advantage of all the site features, please take a moment to register. It's fast, simple and absolutely free. So please join our community today!
    If you have problems registering or can't log into your account, please contact Admin.

Watts link

RODRIG3911

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
1,016
Loc.
Tucson
Have any of you installed watts links instead of a pan hard bar type drag link for the front 3 link? Seems like a great idea and easy enough to build..... My current set up swings pretty far towards the passenger side and bends my limit strap mounts every time I hit the rocks. If you've done this, please post pictures and comments 🤠
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
37,065
I only see it working if you are full hydro steering. Otherwise the bumpsteer will be crazy.
Don't think you can make the links long enough for a long travel suspension given how narrow the frame starts as. And completely ignoring the packaging needed with the engine, steering linkage, front driveshaft...

It's a cool linkage for balanced left/right forces. Late crown vics had it in the rear. They were a hot mess when the bushings went bad. But they were wide and not much vertical travel.
 

ntsqd

heratic car camper
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
5,953
Loc.
Upper SoKA
It can be made to work with steering involved, BUT the primary drag-link has to run parallel to radius arms or main linkage in a push/pull orientation. Then you'll either need a GM Square Body's 4WD Steering arm on the driver's knuckle or a bell-crank mounted on the axle housing with a secondary drag-link attached to the right knuckle or the tie-rod.
Which means that either the steering box needs to be mounted back at the radius arm frame mount, or there is yet another drag-link running back there from a front mounted steering box to some sort of idler arm.
There is or was a mid 50's era Chevy (GMC?) pick-up running around NorCA with this lay-out under it. No idea how well it worked as I only saw it parked. With all of that linkage in the steering I have a hard time thinking that it was very precise. Getting all of those relative geometries set up correctly seems like a LOT of work.

One of the aftermarket EB fame builders briefly had a chassis with a front Watts linkage and mostly std steering. It was a flash in the pan, gone before many saw it. They had the whole Watts linkage laid flat, the toggle link at the middle of the linkage rotated about a vertical axis.

If you model the linkage design (single ply cardboard and thumb-tacks on graph paper is how I did it) and play around with it you'll see that it does not move in a truly linear path. the middle of it's travel path is very close to linear, but the ends of the travel path are quite curved and in directions opposite of each other. The length of the toggle link seems to have a large effect on the shape of the travel path, but the ratio of the link's lengths is also critical to the shape of the travel path. God help you if you move one o the frame mounts out of "square" with the rest of the linkage.
Also, the height of the toggle link's center bearing determines the Roll Center of the suspension. Where that ends up due to other factors that force it's location is not always desirable.
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
37,065
I remember seeing a SEMA build brodozer on airbags build with funky steering. The pitman arm was 90° Went to the back. At the rear of the links was an idler arm that paralleled the links to the front axle. Then another idler arm(s) to turn that 90° to now work the steering. All chromed and painted. Airbag suspension with probably a couple feet of travel. Was good for getting around the car shows and likely nothing else.
 
OP
OP
RODRIG3911

RODRIG3911

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
1,016
Loc.
Tucson
Thanks guys for all the input and sharing your knowledge. I'm not going to try it after hearing the feedback haha. If I had a project Bronco that I could tinker with I would love to try to make it work, but not going to mess up my baby now that I know it's not as simple as it seems....
I think instead of the poly bushings, some ballistic fab or johnny joints might last longer for that system.
 

ntsqd

heratic car camper
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
5,953
Loc.
Upper SoKA
As I recall the MB's steering bell-crank, in particular, used bronze bushings. Problem is that it doesn't take much wear (couple .001 inch) and now you have slop in the steering. A tiny amount of slop at the pivot is magnified at the ends of the bell-crank.
 

Yeller

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
7,689
Loc.
Rogers County Oklahoma
As I recall the MB's steering bell-crank, in particular, used bronze bushings. Problem is that it doesn't take much wear (couple .001 inch) and now you have slop in the steering. A tiny amount of slop at the pivot is magnified at the ends of the bell-crank.
I messed with a U4 car that had all that mess. It worked exceptionally well but was a nightmare to get right and robust. Fortunately wasn’t my build, I just got to watch and wrench on it a small bit.
 

ntsqd

heratic car camper
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
5,953
Loc.
Upper SoKA
If I were going to build something like that with a bell-crank in the steering I'd use an over-sized trailer spindle, hub, & tapered bearings for the pivot. I can not imagine a scenario where that might occur.
 
Top