What are you running for shocks up front?

[carmi]

Blistein 7100 (12" short body) front and back. Started with 360/80 valving in front and 275/78 in rear. Was still to soft (primarily needed more rebound resistance). Ended up revalving fronts to 400/100 and using 360/80 in rear. Unbelievable what a good set of shocks can do. Much less body roll on road and way smoother off road. Will say that the shocks are amazing but Bilstein's customer service was horrible. Took over 8 weeks to get the new valving. Thought the idea of a customizable shock was the ticket until I found out that the only place to get parts is directly through Bilstein who really could care less about the little guy after the initial sale. After I finally got the parts, the revalve was very easy. As for valving, my rig is right at 5300# with Wild Horse's 3-1/2" coils up front and full size Bronco leaf springs in the rear. I think most of the average Bronco's do good with the 360/80 and 275/78 setup. Got the shocks from Lee at Raceshock.com who was very good to work with.

 

[BwoncoHowie]

Maybe not "officially" but they get pretty close.
I haven't looked at all the numbers, but you can get measurements within an inch or so both extended and compressed, and that's usually "good enough" for most EB setups.
And a little longer might complement what you're trying to do.

Another guess on my part, but I'm assuming for the moment that it would be easier to find a front with eyes at both ends, rather than the stem/stud mount of the stock mounts at one end.
If that's the case, then an extended F250 mount, a custom mount, or a shock hoop up front would be needed.

But it sounds doable at least so far. Have you looked at all the specs and couldn't find one, or just didn't see them listed? Maybe I'm over-assuming, but it might be worth a little deeper search.

Paul

Hi Paul, Thanks again for the help. Bottom line is if I'm only running a single shock up front, will i need to have it mounted in the factory stock location or can I run the Duff 70/30 in front of the spring? In other words, Has anyone had a problem running a single in this location by itself?
If I have to buy another pair of shocks for the front, do I get a front shock or a baja bronco rear shock for the front?

 

[FlogginHarvey]

I'll chime in... I had an old school lift on my '75 with doetsch (sp) shocks and it was pretty stiff. Swapped out to WH progressive coils and leafs and then went 2.5 Kings reservoirs with compression adjusters. I have not had it Offroad yet but what a WORLD of difference on bad streets, the brief highway test, and gravel roads.

When I was shopping I had it narrowed down to Bilstein 7100, Fox, and King. After going with. Carli lift and King 2.5's on my F350 I just couldn't resist to do it on the EB. From everything I read and asked it looked to me that the higher end Bilstien, Fox, & King were within spitting distance of each other and just down to some nitty-gritty personal preference stuff.

I will say this: spend a little more on shocks and get the valving right and you will be SUPER HAPPY!!!

 

[BwoncoHowie]

Blistein 7100 (12" short body) front and back. Started with 360/80 valving in front and 275/78 in rear. Was still to soft (primarily needed more rebound resistance). Ended up revalving fronts to 400/100 and using 360/80 in rear. Unbelievable what a good set of shocks can do. Much less body roll on road and way smoother off road. Will say that the shocks are amazing but Bilstein's customer service was horrible. Took over 8 weeks to get the new valving. Thought the idea of a customizable shock was the ticket until I found out that the only place to get parts is directly through Bilstein who really could care less about the little guy after the initial sale. After I finally got the parts, the revalve was very easy. As for valving, my rig is right at 5300# with Wild Horse's 3-1/2" coils up front and full size Bronco leaf springs in the rear. I think most of the average Bronco's do good with the 360/80 and 275/78 setup. Got the shocks from Lee at Raceshock.com who was very good to work with.

Very helpful info. Will consider this if i end up with ordering Bilsteins for the front. What I'm looking for in Collapsed length from center to center mounting points is 13" and fully extended needs to be 22-24"

 

[DirtDonk]

Bottom line is if I'm only running a single shock up front, will i need to have it mounted in the factory stock location or can I run the Duff 70/30 in front of the spring? In other words, Has anyone had a problem running a single in this location by itself?

While it's not necessary to run in a specific location, and it can be entirely up to you, the valving needs "might" change with location.
My reasoning is that the location behind the spring has more leverage on the shock than in front. Is it much? Don't know. Never measured it or heard of it being an issue.
The issues that some run into however are clearance with other modifications. Primarily the lower mount is in the way of converting your steering to TRO positioning, and often of things like anti-swaybars and such.
So much so that you hear more often nowadays of people cutting off their lower mounts and going back to behind-the-coil mounting. They might use a hoop, a taller eye-type mount like the "F-250" mounts, or just the stock ones. But behind the spring offers more options.

If I have to buy another pair of shocks for the front, do I get a front shock or a baja bronco rear shock for the front?

Again, might depend on your use. Valving is still critical, and their may be that leverage factor to take into account. But certainly a stock mount will use a shorter shock and possibly be a limiting factor in overall suspension travel. If a custom mount is utilized behind the spring however, then the wheel travel issue does not usually crop up.
The remaining issue can be the quality of the front bracket and/or it's installation. There were many different versions back in the day, and many different positions that it could have been welded on. I've seen some that were poorly positioned and caused a misalignment with the lower mount, and/or interference with the spring tower and larger shock bodies that are more readily available these days.
So you might want to take some additional close measurements of your existing front mounts to make sure the new shocks will fit properly.
Or, if it's not a big deal I suppose you could always extend the upper stud if that was needed.

Personally, I think I'd run the shocks behind the springs. At the very least they seem more protected from rock damage back there.

What I'm looking for in Collapsed length from center to center mounting points is 13" and fully extended needs to be 22-24"

This is both for the front (if you use the front mount) and the rear?
As far as I know they do not make a 7100 that's 13" short. But if you can get away with 14 inches, there are more choices.
They can be had down to 14.21" in the short-body "10 inch travel" version and still get you into the 24" extended length range, or a just slightly shorter version at 14.06" in the "8 inch travel" category if you don't mind being limited to 22.29" extended.
Personally, if that extra 1/8" of compressed length isn't an issue (not sure how it could be at that point!) then the longer extended length can really benefit suspension extension/droop if your rig is set up for it (longer brake hoses and cables and such). If you don't need that extra travel, then it's wide open.
Again, as long as you can live with the extra length when compressed. Do you know your current mount-to-mount measurements at ride height?

Paul

 

[BwoncoHowie]

After 37 years I have played with all kinds of shocks, Airbags, singles, duals and adjustable's. I have not tried Bilstiens so no comment on those. Right now I am running a single shock up front. 70/30 duff mounted to the old style weld on shock mount running from the C-Cap up the side of the original coil spring mount. I have old style Rancho stiff ass 2.5" lift springs. Running out here in the desert rutted and sand trapped roads they work very well. They work well in the rocks since the front shocks compress easily. I did not like them in the rear where I run Rancho 9000 adjustable's. The adjustable's work well in the rear but I think they suck in the front. too soft or to hard they don't offset the compression and rebound
If I were to do a do over with modern front coils I would probably chase the Bilstiens but only if they had very different rates front and rear. I want my front springs to compress easily but have far greater rebound control. The rear due to the lief spring a closer 50/50 balance is necessary for payload control.

I'm running singles in all corners now, and the fronts are not in stock location but rather installed on the weld-on mounts from the c-cap to the weld-on Stroppe type brackets in front of the spring towers. Is this ok to run a single shock here on the front axle? I have no issues yet with the 70-30's on the front or rear, but was wondering if I will see trouble or poorer performance running it like this.

 

[BwoncoHowie]

Maybe not "officially" but they get pretty close.
I haven't looked at all the numbers, but you can get measurements within an inch or so both extended and compressed, and that's usually "good enough" for most EB setups.
And a little longer might complement what you're trying to do.

Another guess on my part, but I'm assuming for the moment that it would be easier to find a front with eyes at both ends, rather than the stem/stud mount of the stock mounts at one end.
If that's the case, then an extended F250 mount, a custom mount, or a shock hoop up front would be needed.

But it sounds doable at least so far. Have you looked at all the specs and couldn't find one, or just didn't see them listed? Maybe I'm over-assuming, but it might be worth a little deeper search.

Paul

Everything I'm hearing about the 7100 is as close to what I'm looking for as I can come up with but... If I buy a pair for the front, do I get stud mounts for the stock location or get rear shocks with dual grommets at both ends and bolt them in the front weld-on Stroppe-modification location?

And with a 3" over stock coil spring length, what model number do I ask for?

 

[BwoncoHowie]

While it's not necessary to run in a specific location, and it can be entirely up to you, the valving needs "might" change with location.
My reasoning is that the location behind the spring has more leverage on the shock than in front. Is it much? Don't know. Never measured it or heard of it being an issue.
The issues that some run into however are clearance with other modifications. Primarily the lower mount is in the way of converting your steering to TRO positioning, and often of things like anti-swaybars and such.
So much so that you hear more often nowadays of people cutting off their lower mounts and going back to behind-the-coil mounting. They might use a hoop, a taller eye-type mount like the "F-250" mounts, or just the stock ones. But behind the spring offers more options.




Again, might depend on your use. Valving is still critical, and their may be that leverage factor to take into account. But certainly a stock mount will use a shorter shock and possibly be a limiting factor in overall suspension travel. If a custom mount is utilized behind the spring however, then the wheel travel issue does not usually crop up.
The remaining issue can be the quality of the front bracket and/or it's installation. There were many different versions back in the day, and many different positions that it could have been welded on. I've seen some that were poorly positioned and caused a misalignment with the lower mount, and/or interference with the spring tower and larger shock bodies that are more readily available these days.
So you might want to take some additional close measurements of your existing front mounts to make sure the new shocks will fit properly.
Or, if it's not a big deal I suppose you could always extend the upper stud if that was needed.

Personally, I think I'd run the shocks behind the springs. At the very least they seem more protected from rock damage back there.




This is both for the front (if you use the front mount) and the rear?
As far as I know they do not make a 7100 that's 13" short. But if you can get away with 14 inches, there are more choices.
They can be had down to 14.21" in the short-body "10 inch travel" version and still get you into the 24" extended length range, or a just slightly shorter version at 14.06" in the "8 inch travel" category if you don't mind being limited to 22.29" extended.
Personally, if that extra 1/8" of compressed length isn't an issue (not sure how it could be at that point!) then the longer extended length can really benefit suspension extension/droop if your rig is set up for it (longer brake hoses and cables and such). If you don't need that extra travel, then it's wide open.
Again, as long as you can live with the extra length when compressed. Do you know your current mount-to-mount measurements at ride height?

Paul

Thanks Paul, this helps a lot, I havent measured the installed height distance between the mounting points yet, I just going by the ranchos I pulled off that were supposed to be made for 3" spring lift. I want to get the longest extension I can without damaging the shock during a snubber tap.

 

[Pa PITT]

... Well I did not read near all the comments. I'd sure not expect anyone to do what i'M USING... But back when I worked at the Dodge Stealership .. We replaced a lot of stock 3/4 ton shock .. They seemed correct for my Bronco after I got a 2.5 lift in place & with the Diesel.
... I'm very happy with my pull offs from some warranty job. I'll swear my Bronco rides just as nice as it did with the gas motor .

 

[Rustytruck]

I'm running singles in all corners now, and the fronts are not in stock location but rather installed on the weld-on mounts from the c-cap to the weld-on Stroppe type brackets in front of the spring towers. Is this ok to run a single shock here on the front axle? I have no issues yet with the 70-30's on the front or rear, but was wondering if I will see trouble or poorer performance running it like this.

Sorry for not following up on this. I don't know how i missed it. I run the Duff 70/30 on the end of the c-cap old school extended shock mount. My belief is this is the longest stroke of the shock when the suspension cycles. This I think makes the shock much more reactive allowing it to do a better job.

 

[BwoncoHowie]

OK let's suppose i want Bilstein 7100-series, what part number do I ask for?

 

[DirtDonk]

What part number do you want?;D

But seriously folks... For the front mounts it really would help if you had a bolt-to-bolt measurement at ride height. Reason I keep coming back to this is because being a weld-on both the top mounts and bottom tabs could have been welded on in different places by different people on different Broncos. So there might not be a single standard measurement.

If you can supply that dimension, while probably not making a big difference, it would at least show on paper a starting point to choose shock sizes from. Same for the rear just in case.
Maybe I'm overthinking it again, but I'm also lazy (and don't have the book in front of me anyway) and find multiple-choice questions easier when there is more info.

Paul

 

[roostracing]

What arms are these?

 

[toddz69]

What arms are these?

Duff's.

Todd Z.

 

[roostracing]

I appreciate it!

 

[ntsqd]

Blistein 7100 (12" short body) front and back. Started with 360/80 valving in front and 275/78 in rear. Was still to soft (primarily needed more rebound resistance). Ended up revalving fronts to 400/100 and using 360/80 in rear. Unbelievable what a good set of shocks can do. Much less body roll on road and way smoother off road. Will say that the shocks are amazing but Bilstein's customer service was horrible. Took over 8 weeks to get the new valving. Thought the idea of a customizable shock was the ticket until I found out that the only place to get parts is directly through Bilstein who really could care less about the little guy after the initial sale. After I finally got the parts, the revalve was very easy. As for valving, my rig is right at 5300# with Wild Horse's 3-1/2" coils up front and full size Bronco leaf springs in the rear. I think most of the average Bronco's do good with the 360/80 and 275/78 setup. Got the shocks from Lee at Raceshock.com who was very good to work with.

FWIW I've bought Bilstein valve stacks from McKenzies.com and I'm pretty sure that Kartek and Off Road Warehouse also stock them.
And for those just following along, that 400/100 valving is the outer limit of what a 7100 should ever have in it. The comp damping is very close to buckling the shock shaft on high speed impacts.

Sorry for not following up on this. I don't know how i missed it. I run the Duff 70/30 on the end of the c-cap old school extended shock mount. My belief is this is the longest stroke of the shock when the suspension cycles. This I think makes the shock much more reactive allowing it to do a better job.

On the front side of the axle on a TTB is where I was told is the best place to put the shocks on a Class 7 (limited travel mini-truck desert racer), so it stands to reason that it would also be good for anything with radius arms.

 

[BwoncoHowie]

FWIW I've bought Bilstein valve stacks from McKenzies.com and I'm pretty sure that Kartek and Off Road Warehouse also stock them.
And for those just following along, that 400/100 valving is the outer limit of what a 7100 should ever have in it. The comp damping is very close to buckling the shock shaft on high speed impacts.


On the front side of the axle on a TTB is where I was told is the best place to put the shocks on a Class 7 (limited travel mini-truck desert racer), so it stands to reason that it would also be good for anything with radius arms.

I think I discovered that after a few hot laps in Azusa Canyon a few weekends ago. prolly gonna run the duffs in the front mounting location until i find a good bilstein 5100 with 360/80 valving but like Donk says I need to measure eye to eye length first, in order to determine suitable part number for my rig.
The hot weather we been having recently has zapped any extra energy i had to do any more garage tinkering.

 

[DirtDonk]

If you're pretty set on that 360/80 valving (seems a good choice for your use in Azusa anyway), then the only off-the-shelf Bilstein I see in the 5100 series is a reservoir-type 5165 series (#25-187724) with eye-to-eye measurements of 27.4" extended and 16.1" compressed.
If you're still in the process of fabbing up your shock mounts, if you can get them so they fall within this range, you're good to go.

And frankly, with a little hard use and your typical desert climate, paying the extra for a reservoir type might not be such a bad idea.
At this point though, it's roughly the same price as some of the reservoir 7100's, so that puts it in a completely different category.

Paul

 

[ntsqd]

Never done it, but I've been told by various desert racers that it is possible to special order 5100's with any of their various "off the shelf" valve stacks.

If you're set on Bilsteins I'd just order 7100's with the desired valving and be done with it.

 

[DirtDonk]

Never heard that, but never really asked anyone at Bilstein that specific question either.
Generally, I thought you could order any valving you want, as long as you order a whole crap-ton of shocks or something like that. So not for the timid or faint of heart!

But new policies comes up all the time, and I haven't spoken to anyone at Bilstein in a while, so you never know. If they do custom 5100's without the big commitment, it'll be interesting to see what people come up with.

In the meantime though, luckily they seemed to have nailed the basic valving for an Early Bronco with their out of the box product anyway. So haven't had much call for customs as of yet. His 360/80 is a common starting point for the desert crowd, but the 298/94 we use currently seems to be the ticket for the dual-purpose and mostly-street crowds.

Have recently set up a couple of customers with different valved 5100's for dual-shock applications, but have not had any feedback as of yet. Not sure if they didn't bother, or just have not put their projects back together yet.

Paul