When is it no longer Ford Powered?

[WheelHorse]

I dont see the point in Chevy engines in Fords anymore. I would never do it! no need the 302 351 engines provide plenty of power for a bronco. The coyote is nice if you have the coin and the time to do it. I agree with others that the motor is the heart of the truck keep it Ford Keep it real.

I too have passed right buy a nice 49 Ford truck with a Chevy engine. To me its a short cut, Keep that Flat head or build a nice 302/351. If you want a 350 buy a chevy truck.

I'm just trying to wrap my mind around how it is determined to be a Ford heart. From what I've read from the few posts...as long as it looks like a Ford "imposter engine"...it will be accepted, with Diesel being exempt. Going back to grade school, if it looks like, smells like, but you know it is not, it is an imposter.

Ford purity makes sense, in a period correct restoration. But the disgust over a far superior LS engine baffles me...when, most Ford-look-alikes, are nothing more than imposter engines. There's nothing Ford about them except for a very similar design, only better. It's why we run a Trick flow head over a GT40, or a Dart block capable of today's combinations...safely and reliably. Intake manifolds...carburetors...now fuel injection that is non-ford. If it's an imposter engine...is it really a Ford? Is there a Ford logo on a Dart block to show it's blue blood? Is that "spirit" really still there? If Ford roller blocks were so great, the would not be splitting 5.0 (around 500 crank hp) or cracking cam journals 5.8 (at stock hp levels). The roller 302 is a great little mill for a safe 3-400hp street engine...if the block checks out. Time and money spent having a block carefully checked in all areas is an added expense.

Back to the LS:

Some say LS ripped off a Ford design...yet it is shunned. Did not Dart rip off a Ford design? Is it because it "looks" more Ford that it is accepted? Does this not seem ridiculous? So the real question is, aftermarket look-a-likes are acceptable, but other OEM's are not...unless their diesel?

Food for thought:

What if it was not Dart, but Honda that recast a better Ford look-a-like...would a Honda-Ford look-a-like suddenly be allowed over say an LS?

Food for thought my fellow enthusiasts.

 

[ep67bro]

If you use a Dart Ford based block then your good. Again it was based off a Ford design yes its been upgraded and bares very little to the original small block ford but thats where it came from. Most of all the distributor in in the right place! Just like our broncos most of them dont look any thing like they did back in 66 but they are still a bronco at heart.

As for the LS if you are purely talking about horsepower then maybe an LS is for you. But most people with broncos are not looking for over 500 hp. If you building a drag racer than go ahead and use that LS. I know that my old 1967 289 with a mild build moves my bronco on 35s just fine.

 

[Dannyboy71]

Everybody’s different and that’s ok. It’s part of the fun for me. If you love that LS in your bronco I am happy for you. My personal taste is keep Ford Ford and keep Chevy Chevy.
I like both.

 

[jamesroney]

Well, I am going to feed this troll...

First, it is perfectly OK to put a Cummins in your Ford. That still makes it a Ford. Ford has been putting Cummins 6BT engines in their trucks for years. There's a picture of a Ford 6BT here. If you have any objection to having a Cummins in your Bronco...change the sticker.

Second, it is perfectly NOT OK to put a Detroit Diesel or Navistar (IH) in your Bronco. CAT or Cummins is fine. But absolutely no Detroit, or International Harvester. The fact that Ford put an IH diesel in the 1984 F250 and revolutionized the heavy duty pickup market is irrelevant. The fact that IH powered every Ford Diesel pickup for over 25 years is irrelevant. IH diesels are horrid. The 6.9 IDI is a boat anchor, and the 7.3 IDI is not much better. The 6.0 power stroke was a complete turd. Therefore, no IH diesels in a Bronco.

The Ford 1160 diesel is very cool, and is of course the 3208 CAT. So that's OK. I might allow a DT466 in a Bronco, but wait...no. The 6BT is better. so no.

The arguement for a diesel in a Bronco is EXACTLY the same as the arguement against a Small Block Chevy in a Ford. The LS series of chevy engines IS their Small Block Chevy engine. At the end of the day, the LS is chevy's V8 platform. And the reason that you don't want one, and the reason why it is hated is always the same:
Rule #1 "The replacement part must be superior to the existing part."

The reason why people hate the SBC in a Bronco, and the reason why your LS engine will NEVER be acceptable is because it is NOT superior. Because of mounting incompatibility, it is inferior, and therefore not "better." If it is not better, then it is worse. If it is the same, then it is worse.

A small block chevy in a Ford Bronco is not "better." This makes it "worse."

When you take something good, (a Bronco) and you intentionally make it "worse" that is bad. (and should probably be illegal...)

Note that the 8.2 deck Dart Block is not much different than my Ford Motorsport M6010-Boss302. It turns out that it superior to the stock C5AE, C5OE, C8AE, D1OE, and D4DE blocks. Therefore it is an upgrade, and therefore acceptable.

It turns out that GM Saginaw steering, Bendix brakes, and Dana drivetrain are acceptable. And yes..even the Japanese AX-15 transmission is OK. Also, New Process and NV are acceptable. A Borg Warner T5 is not acceptable.
The aftermarket Atlas transfer case is acceptable. But the NP241OR Rock Trac transfer case is NOT acceptable. Why? Because it's not better than an Atlas.

Rule #2: The replacement part must be superior to alternative replacements.

Don't get me started on the E4OD, or Turbo Hydramatic 700R4...

 

[ared77]

Tell it brother!!! I like this guy!;D

 

[sprdv1]

Now that's some info.

Nice

Well, I am going to feed this troll...

First, it is perfectly OK to put a Cummins in your Ford. That still makes it a Ford. Ford has been putting Cummins 6BT engines in their trucks for years. There's a picture of a Ford 6BT here. If you have any objection to having a Cummins in your Bronco...change the sticker.

Second, it is perfectly NOT OK to put a Detroit Diesel or Navistar (IH) in your Bronco. CAT or Cummins is fine. But absolutely no Detroit, or International Harvester. The fact that Ford put an IH diesel in the 1984 F250 and revolutionized the heavy duty pickup market is irrelevant. The fact that IH powered every Ford Diesel pickup for over 25 years is irrelevant. IH diesels are horrid. The 6.9 IDI is a boat anchor, and the 7.3 IDI is not much better. The 6.0 power stroke was a complete turd. Therefore, no IH diesels in a Bronco.

The Ford 1160 diesel is very cool, and is of course the 3208 CAT. So that's OK. I might allow a DT466 in a Bronco, but wait...no. The 6BT is better. so no.

The arguement for a diesel in a Bronco is EXACTLY the same as the arguement against a Small Block Chevy in a Ford. The LS series of chevy engines IS their Small Block Chevy engine. At the end of the day, the LS is chevy's V8 platform. And the reason that you don't want one, and the reason why it is hated is always the same:
Rule #1 "The replacement part must be superior to the existing part."

The reason why people hate the SBC in a Bronco, and the reason why your LS engine will NEVER be acceptable is because it is NOT superior. Because of mounting incompatibility, it is inferior, and therefore not "better." If it is not better, then it is worse. If it is the same, then it is worse.

A small block chevy in a Ford Bronco is not "better." This makes it "worse."

When you take something good, (a Bronco) and you intentionally make it "worse" that is bad. (and should probably be illegal...)

Note that the 8.2 deck Dart Block is not much different than my Ford Motorsport M6010-Boss302. It turns out that it superior to the stock C5AE, C5OE, C8AE, D1OE, and D4DE blocks. Therefore it is an upgrade, and therefore acceptable.

It turns out that GM Saginaw steering, Bendix brakes, and Dana drivetrain are acceptable. And yes..even the Japanese AX-15 transmission is OK. Also, New Process and NV are acceptable. A Borg Warner T5 is not acceptable.
The aftermarket Atlas transfer case is acceptable. But the NP241OR Rock Trac transfer case is NOT acceptable. Why? Because it's not better than an Atlas.

Rule #2: The replacement part must be superior to alternative replacements.

Don't get me started on the E4OD, or Turbo Hydramatic 700R4...

 

[sprdv1]

I would think the answer is in the question, "powered." Any Ford engine installed in a Bronco would be Ford powered.

I don't see a problem powering a Bronco with other brands, unless it's a museum piece. BUT, there are exceptions to every rule! ;D

And a lot of breakin the rules. Haha

Really its whatever a person that spends their own hard earned money decides

 

[jamesroney]

Crap. I knew we were going to end up going sideways.

In 1972, Ford Motor Company contracted Toyo Kogyo Heavy Industries to provide their compact pickup truck to the US. This means that the 1.8L Mazda Overhead Cam 4 cylinder engine with a Solex carburetor is now a Ford Engine.

The 1.8L Mazda used a double roller timing chain and plastic sliders which were guaranteed to disintegrate when subjected to heat and work. They also had an aluminum head over cast iron block which was also guaranteed to fail whenever called upon to perform work. The Mazda 1.8 is very similar to the Toyota 20R.

Based on your requirements...the Toyo Kogyo 1.8L engine would be an acceptable powerplant and still be "Ford Powered." This means that the Mazda engine, (which is a piece of crap...) would be considered "acceptable" but the legendary Toyota 20R engine upon which it was copied...must be deemed "unacceptable." (everybody knows this!)

Both alternatives violate both Rule #1, and Rule #2...and therefore shall NOT be acceptable as replacements in a Bronco. Please note that these rules ALSO apply to current manufacturer Ford products as well. So anything that says "EcoBoost" cannot be considered a viable Ford Engine for anything that says "Bronco." 2021 is going to be a mess...

The OP asked "When is it no longer Ford Powered?"

The answer is never: "When the guy who ruined his truck says so..."
The answer is: "When the friends of the guy who ruined his truck says so..."

 

[mustanggarage]

its actually much simpler than all that. chevy and ford are rivals. anything that looks like a chevy engine is going to be hated by a lot of Bronco people. also jeep is a direct competitor to bronco so a jeep engine is going to be a no go. cummins diesel can go in anything, and a dart block is not a competitor it is an upgrade of an original ford part similar to upgrading a distributor or a carbereter. You do not see a dart ford block in a camaro on a regular basis. it is like someone wearing an oklahoma sooners jersey to a nebraska home game. it is a rivalry pure and simple. Myself, I am a ford guy. I would never buy a chevy, but a jeep or a dodge is ok. its the whole ford vs chevy rivalry. and it goes back to the days when it was much cheaper to build a high powered chevy engine. those of us that bleed ford blue would willing spend more money on building up our ford engines to compete, pure stubbornness would preclude the switch to a chevy engine. now when the options are so much closer, the idea of putting a chevy engine in a classic bronco is anathema to many people. simply because it's a chevy engine. it could be far superior in every way and most true ford guys would still hate the idea. if they didn't they wouldn't be ford guys, they would be hot rodders, or classic car fans etc. applying logic to emotion is rarely satisfying. JMO

 

[blubuckaroo]

If you've ever tried to swap Ford tranny's and/or bell housings, you'll see why rodders gravitate to Chevy engines.
The list of different Ford tranny and bell housing patterns is huge and somewhat confusing.
Chevy had very few changes. The bell housing pattern is practically unchanged across their line.

 

[Yeller]

If you've ever tried to swap Ford tranny's and/or bell housings, you'll see why rodders gravitate to Chevy engines.
The list of different Ford tranny and bell housing patterns is huge and somewhat confusing.
Chevy had very few changes. The bell housing pattern is practically unchanged across their line.

yep, only one for v8's and inline 6 cyl. most of the 60 degree v6 and 4 cylinder use a different one, about it. I have a truck (and no not a Ford....) with a 1968 manual on an LS, bolts right up and works in the same vehicle the trans came in, had to figure out the correct flywheel but even the 68 clutch fit the LS flywheel, no adapters or weird custom parts needed.

 

[mustanggarage]

If you've ever tried to swap Ford tranny's and/or bell housings, you'll see why rodders gravitate to Chevy engines.
The list of different Ford tranny and bell housing patterns is huge and somewhat confusing.
Chevy had very few changes. The bell housing pattern is practically unchanged across their line.

I am sure that is true, however that only applies if the rodder in question happens to know anything about chevy engines, and is willing to even consider using one of them. I have never swapped a chevy engine or transmission in my life, but I have swapped many ford engines and transmissions. I know Fords, and I am comfortable with them. I know nothing about chevy engines and have no real desire to learn. I am pretty sure I am not alone in that. now if someone wanted to contaminate me by giving me a 67 corvette I would reconsider lol.

 

[nvrstuk]

I am sure that is true, however that only applies if the rodder in question happens to know anything about chevy engines, and is willing to even consider using one of them. I have never swapped a chevy engine or transmission in my life, but I have swapped many ford engines and transmissions. I know Fords, and I am comfortable with them. I know nothing about chevy engines and have no real desire to learn. I am pretty sure I am not alone in that. now if someone wanted to contaminate me by giving me a 67 corvette I would reconsider lol.

I've swapped dozens (probably 50 or more) Chebby engines and tranny's and swapped them around in dozens of different vehicles... they FIT and do so easily!

I'm a hot rodder from 50 yrs back. Never had money to do fancy stuff, but simple Chevy stuff swaps.

Just an example like Yeller was saying about bolt patterns. Check in to how many strg column wiring harnesses Ford used in 20 yrs... compare that to the number Chebby used. HA Makes ya NEVER want to swap an engine/trans on a non Chevy vehicle ever again. So easy. Wire colors are the same, bellhousings, etc, etc, etc. They seem like they are made specifically for hot rodders.

It's like FORD engineers wanted the opposite, specifically try to make swapping engines/trans/wiring as difficult as possible from year to year over the last 75 years! lol

I like my Ford Racing block stroker, built several, spec'd a bunch more Dart's and others and it's fun but my goodness, Ford strokers are 2 to 3 times what I can get equiv Chevy power for. I know, because I help guys in our club put builds together, buy LS engines, swap in different tranny's etc.

Anyway, I like most any engine in any rig. Don't care-except I want it built and designed by the owner. I don't appreciate a "bolt-on" Bronco and I understand not everybody can do the fab work but I don't care nearly as much for a pretty mall crawler Bronco or an ICON Bronco that is done with expertise but not by the owner over a home built Bronco that probably looks like a it's worth 1/4 the value of the "farmed out" Bronco...

I drool over the sbc in the MG, the LS in the 240Z, etc.

Built not bought is what I really appreciate.

 

[jamesroney]

I've swapped dozens (probably 50 or more) Chebby engines and tranny's and swapped them around in dozens of different vehicles... they FIT and do so easily!

I'm a hot rodder from 50 yrs back. Never had money to do fancy stuff, but simple Chevy stuff swaps.

Just an example like Yeller was saying about bolt patterns. Check in to how many strg column wiring harnesses Ford used in 20 yrs... compare that to the number Chebby used. HA Makes ya NEVER want to swap an engine/trans on a non Chevy vehicle ever again. So easy. Wire colors are the same, bellhousings, etc, etc, etc. They seem like they are made specifically for hot rodders.

It's like FORD engineers wanted the opposite, specifically try to make swapping engines/trans/wiring as difficult as possible from year to year over the last 75 years! lol

I like my Ford Racing block stroker, built several, spec'd a bunch more Dart's and others and it's fun but my goodness, Ford strokers are 2 to 3 times what I can get equiv Chevy power for. I know, because I help guys in our club put builds together, buy LS engines, swap in different tranny's etc.

Anyway, I like most any engine in any rig. Don't care-except I want it built and designed by the owner. I don't appreciate a "bolt-on" Bronco and I understand not everybody can do the fab work but I don't care nearly as much for a pretty mall crawler Bronco or an ICON Bronco that is done with expertise but not by the owner over a home built Bronco that probably looks like a it's worth 1/4 the value of the "farmed out" Bronco...

I drool over the sbc in the MG, the LS in the 240Z, etc.

Built not bought is what I really appreciate.

What kind of a Lunatic would put a small block in a 2100 lb British sports car?
I just looked at my Sunbeam Tiger...and it says "Powered by Ford..."
I can't figure out how to fit a SBC in there. Maybe I could use the HEI distributor as a cup holder???

tee hee hee...

 

[nvrstuk]

For 2 yrs I was looking for a Miata for a sbf..
Call me a lunatic. lol

Besides, sbf's don't need a distributor- my strokers don't. Make hood fitment a bit easier.

 

[WheelHorse]

What we have here are two perfect examples of rational thinking:

If you've ever tried to swap Ford tranny's and/or bell housings, you'll see why rodders gravitate to Chevy engines.
The list of different Ford tranny and bell housing patterns is huge and somewhat confusing.
Chevy had very few changes. The bell housing pattern is practically unchanged across their line.

yep, only one for v8's and inline 6 cyl. most of the 60 degree v6 and 4 cylinder use a different one, about it. I have a truck (and no not a Ford....) with a 1968 manual on an LS, bolts right up and works in the same vehicle the trans came in, had to figure out the correct flywheel but even the 68 clutch fit the LS flywheel, no adapters or weird custom parts needed.

You guys are enlightened. You two are perfect examples of exercising vehicular passion that has not been muddied by emotions.

 

[blubuckaroo]

What we have here are two perfect examples of rational thinking:







You guys are enlightened. You two are perfect examples of exercising vehicular passion that has not been muddied by emotions.

I'm not a purist by any means, but I do admire an old Ford street rod with a Ford motor in it.
I think the small block Ford is better looking than the small block Chevy anyway. I could never get past the ugly exhaust arrangement on the SBC. The SBF has beautiful evenly spaced exhaust ports that look better with headers than a SBC.

 

[Broncobowsher]

So Ford put a VG30 and VG33 in the Mercury Villagers built in Avon Lake Ohio, the same plant they built Econolines at for decades. Does that mean I can put a VG30 out of a 300Z or a VG33 out of an Xterra in a Bronco and still call it "powered by Ford"? It was an engine Ford put in vehicles they sold hear in the states.

asking for a friend, not myself.

 

[Yeller]

For 2 yrs I was looking for a Miata for a sbf..
Call me a lunatic. lol

Besides, sbf's don't need a distributor- my strokers don't. Make hood fitment a bit easier.

My shop buddy has a 240z in the shop waiting for a dual hair dried LS, should be STUPID fun;D 900-1000hp and 2100#

 

[73azbronco]

Like fordfan, I bleed BLUE. I will walk right past an otherwise sharp '56 Ford pickup, Bronco, Mustang or any other Ford if its got a 350, LS, etc. Might be fine for the owner...but it's not my cup of tea. Not even an option, I'm too brand loyal I suppose.

"even though it's Honda-esque" To me it's more like Ferrari-esque! ;D
Why is a Dart block accepted and not a LS? To me it's because the Dart is based on a Ford.

Just my opinion,
Norm

This^

Fell in love with a 55 f100 at a car show, was going to ask about buying it then noticed the LS, I walked away. Just me, no harm if others like it that way, but I do not.

And, a Dart block built to sit in a Ford engine mount, bolt to a ford bellhousing, use Ford spec heads, is by definition, Ford. Otherwise any aftermarket part used would make the whole build not a ford which is absurd, we use MSD, Edelbrock, etc.