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Which gets better mileage....2 or 4 barrel carbs, and why?

lilwill12

New Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2011
Messages
75
Loc.
East TN
Looking to change from my current stock 2 barrel to a 4 because I have always been told they get better fuel economy. I have had both at different tie s on different trucks but never done any solid research. I am not looking to get huge gains just a little better, right now I am at 14mpg...but I drive 55mph everywhere.

What do you guys think?
 
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
44
Loc.
Huron, SD
What do you burn for fuel? 89 oct ethonal blend I get 12 mpg, 87 oct reg unleaded 15, 91 oct premium I get 18 or better. Stock 289 w 2 barrel.
 

fordtrucksrule

Sr. Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2008
Messages
838
A 4 barrel carb will yield you more power and with more power theres more gas. a 2 barrel carb will yield you less air less air means less power and less fuel.
 

asinor

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 13, 2011
Messages
1,396
Loc.
Tulsa, OK
2/4 doesn't matter as long as it is the right size (CFM) and is tuned properly for the engine. Driving characteristics will be different between 2/4 barrel, manufacturer, etc.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,460
One may be "better" than the other, but the one rule that overrides them all is...
"Your results may vary." ;D

Paul
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
49,460
Joking aside (although it really wasn't a joke), I've run 7 carburetors on mine over the years and, while I did manage the best economy on a 4bbl, there was no clear-cut winner based strictly by the number of venturis present.

I've used Holley 2bbl 350 and 500 and 4bbl 500 cfm carbs. Carter 500 Competition and 625 Street carbs. And a no longer produced Holley 450 cfm "Economaster" carb.
The worst at fuel economy were the two 2bbl Holleys, while the best was the Holley 450. The two Carters and the stock 2bbl Autolite were pretty much neck and neck with economy numbers.
I'd never go back to a two barrel though, since all the 4bbls made more power (except of course for the mileage winner 450 Holley!) and were more fun to own. And there's nothing like the Carter/Edelbrock for ease of tuning, tweaking and messing with. Never had the pleasure of running with a Quadrajet or an Autolite 4100, but I'm not going to have that chance anytime soon either if my EFI has anything to say about it.

Numbers as I remember them were:

1. Stock - city 9-11 and hwy 14 to 15.5
2. Holley 2bbl (both) city 8 and hwy 11-12
3. Holley 4bbl (1850) city 9 and hwy 12-13
4. Carter 500 (Comp) city 9 to 12 and hwy 15-15.5 *
5. Carter 625 (Street) city 9-12 and hwy 15-15.5 **
6. Holley "Economaster" city 13 and hwy 17.5 consistently ***

* Best all around, but sucked off-road no matter how well it was running
** Second best off-idle response, but was a bit big and felt it.
*** By far and away the best off-idle response and the only time I could just let out the clutch and go without feathering the throttle. Had absolutely no power anywhere else.

So as I said. Your results may vary.
All testing was done over a long period of time with most of the carb setups. Freeway driving was ONLY freeway driving and pretty consistent speeds between 55 and 60 over full tanks. City was a mixture, but a consistent commute and full tank checks made the numbers fairly believable I think.

Paul
 

wildbill

Old Bronco Guy
Joined
Jun 29, 2001
Messages
6,888
:cool::cool::cool: It comes down to the right foot. I get 8 to 9 but have a heavey right foot its a toy and I will play till I cant get in it any more. I have a 625 carter on a 351W good luck with your choice.:D:D:D Bill :cool:;D:D
 
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lilwill12

New Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2011
Messages
75
Loc.
East TN
So there is there no truth in saying that a 2 barrel has a larger fuel delivery system over a 4 barrels primaries? Which should result in less fuel economy?

What are your thoughts on the Holley truck avenger in terms of economy, set and forget...etc.

I have had holleys and I was ALWAYS tuning them, so frustrating. I have owned eldebrocks and loved the set and forget but never liked their Offroad performance.

I just want a carb that will yield a good mpg, I can set and walk away from and won't cost an arm and a leg!
 

rastiss

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
1,262
Loc.
Wichita falls, Texas
Properly tuned 4bbl will get better mpg if you stay out of the secondaries. But what fun is that? When mpg gets to be that important its time for a Prius. :D
 

WheelHorse

Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 22, 2004
Messages
2,492
2/4 doesn't matter as long as it is the right size (CFM) and is tuned properly for the engine. Driving characteristics will be different between 2/4 barrel, manufacturer, etc.

This is so true! An owner may be tooling down the highway in a 2bbl at low 13 AFR and throw a 4bbl on and by happenstance, cruising closer to stoi, but then they come back to report just how much better mpg they are achieving by going to a 4bbl, when really, if they had brought the 2bbl in the same AFR as the 4bbl, they'd see the same mpg.

Outside of direct injection, SEFI is the next best set up for fuel atomization. From there, stepping down to throttle body injection is still an improvement over the old toilet bowl. The atomization is so much better with SEFI, plus there's less intake tract for the fuel to drop out on a micro level.

For the OP, don't forget about the ignition system. Providing a stronger "arc" and a little wider gap with a more modern set up will also help to increase mpg.

Then, there's always the overdrive route.

With Bronco's I'd imagine anything over 55mph is really pushing a brick through the wind, so watch your speed.
 

Broncobowsher

Total hack
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
35,710
As stated above, way more variables then just 2/4 barrel.

The Motorcraft 2V (V=Venturi, often called barrel. But holley had a 3-barrel (secondaries were a giant oval) but was still metered by 4 venturi boosters) tends to be a lower performing carb that has been proven many times to run at really stupid angles. also tends to get better economy. If you can't flow the air, but can meter fuel into the air correctly, you will have a doggy but economical engine. Swap that with a generic Holley 2V that generally has default metering (metering is more then just jets) set to rich, you can get a 2V that will flow more air and a lot more fuel. Power will go up and economy will go down.

A properly sized and set up 4V with non-mechanical secondaries (Holly vacuum secondary, Q-jet, Motorcraft 4V, etc.) is typically known for better economy while still delivering better power then what a 2V can do. Driven gently on the primary side of the carburator you get higher velocity thus better atomization going into the intake. Of course the metering has to be setup correctly, float level, idle screw setting, throttle blade angle, jets, power valve, air bleeds, needle valves, etc. Get any of it wrong (too rich or too lean), economy AND power will both suffer. A 4V will flow more air under high loads and thus perform better in the power.

Some interesting trivia on carburator ratings. The flow ratings are not absolute. To have flow you need a pressure differential. A 4V carburator is rated at 1.5" of vacuum. But a 2V carburator is rated at 3" of vacuum. The greater the pressure differential the greater the airflow through the same orfice (carburator in this case). Holley specs are easy to find, if you look up the 750 CFM 4V mechanical secondary carb it has the exact same specs on throttle blade and venturi bore on both primary and secondary. Look at the 500 CFM 2V, it has the exact same specs as the 750, just half the carb. Double the 500 should be 1,000 CFM, not 750.

The difference is the testing. Put that 750 CFM 4V on the flow tester, crank up the fans until you are pulling 3" of vacuum and it will be flowing 1,000 CFM. Manifold vacuum is the lack of air to fill the cylinder on the intake stroke. 3" of vacuum is roughly 10% loss in potential power. I remember seeing a dyno sheet (that I really wish I could find again) that showed manifold pressure during a dyno run. from idle up through about half the RPM window it was flat. No measurable vacuum. At the top end of the chart it was actually showing a vacuum reading that ramped up with RPM. The carburator was limiting airflow. This was a very nice digital reading with lots of decimal points to it, not your hand held tune up gauge. But it showed restriction at higher RPMs. That is why you always see oversized carburators making better peak HP numbers. They sacrifice low speed control for a bigger peak number. This also comes back to that comment I made about a properly sized non-mechanical secondary 4V maintaining good velocity in the primaries. That is a big key to good drivability.

Were you expecting a nice simple answer? While at it we can go into EFI a little bit as well. Since the computer does the metering the warning about going too big hurting you is pretty much gone. You can have a lot more airflow potential and still maintain good control over fuel delivery. But you can go too big as well, but things get a little different. Mass airflow meteres measure the air flowing into the engine, almost. There is a little sampling hole about the size of a small fingernail that measures a little bit of the air flowing through the sensor, the rest bypasses around. But it is all carfully made and calibrated. The smaller the MAF bore, the more that actually flows through the sensor portion and the more accurate it measures. Huge barn doors of MAFs it gets difficult to tell how much air is flowing through the little sensor and how much is going next to it. Like standing in a large barn door on a breezy day, where you stand will change how much you feel the breeze while standing in front of a small window at the other end of the barn you can get a much better feel for the air flow, especially at low speeds. Thus the OEMs tend to be a little small on the MAF sizing. They want to get a decent velocity through the MAF to get a better sample. Racers don't care about low speed performance, they only care about top end numbers, thus the racer parts are bigger. In recent years the controls in the MAF have improved and the bores get larger as things are more tightly controlled, getting a decent reading through the barn door in a light breeze. Actually the full tilt race motors don't even run a MAF, they look at manifold pressure to determine how much air is entering the engine. No MAF restriction. Few dyno runs they can program the curves to match the airflow of the engine and they are off to the races. Ford had to give up on the manifold pressure route as it wasn't accurate enough to meet emissions requirements. Also the MAF tended to add about 1/2 MPG to the mustangs as it could better control fuel delivery during normal use. Easier to control the quality of the MAF over the quality of all the parts that went into the engine (casting variation, machine tolerance stack up, etc.)

Back to the original question. A properly setup 4-barrel carb can offer the best in economy and drivability while offering better performance when needed.
 

broncnaz

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
24,341
Im with some of the others on this but here's my take a properly sized and correctly tuned carb for your engine either 2v or 4v will yeild the about same mileage results. If driven the same.
Now here's the kicker a 4v carb will usually have better lowend response than a 2v carb due to the smaller venturis as during normal driving your only using 1/2 the carb so in that sense a 4v will out perfrom a 2v then on the high end again the 4v is capible of flowing more air so a gain in power is seen there over a 2v carb.
Either one works but the 4v can be the best of both worlds. As for EFI well it is better overall but if you have a properly tuned carb you wont see very much gain by swappng on EFI. You gain some driveability and self adjustment but mileage wont go up all that much if at all.
 
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lilwill12

New Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2011
Messages
75
Loc.
East TN
Awesome information guys....but why can't there be a simple answer??:p

I recently installed the pertronix dizzy, wires, coil, and shorty headers. Things are getting smoothed out but now I want to upgrade the fuel delivery. EFI is not something I want to fool with right now.

In your opinion what is a carb / intake combo that will deliver the best of both worlds?

Thanks again for the help!
 

rastiss

Bronco Guru
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
1,262
Loc.
Wichita falls, Texas
you said you are getting 14mpg now. i don't think that is too shabby for a carbed v8 in a vehicle with the same aero dynamics of a shoebox, especially a 4wd. imho i don't think i would spend the 300-500 bux to MAYBE pick up 2-3 mpg. save your pennies and go efi.
 

Master Chief

Contributor
Bronco Guru
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Nov 24, 2006
Messages
1,238
In your opinion what is a carb / intake combo that will deliver the best of both worlds?

I prefer the matched set combos that the manufacturers have come up with and I personally run Edelbrock components, cam/intake/carb. Much of the guess work is removed by doing this and I find the carb very easy to calibrate.

Roger
 

broncnaz

Bronco Guru
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
24,341
Whats the rest of your setup? ie gearing, tire size, transmission ect. As was said 14mpg is pretty good your probably not going to improve the numbers much. of course 1-2 mpg is a decent pick up when you get 14 or less As for what intake and carb to run well the edelbrock performer manifold works well. as for a carb well if you dont go offroad the edelbrock performer carb with a 500 cfm rating would be your best choice. If you go offorad then pretty much anything else will do try not to go above 600 cfm. after that its all about tuning to squeeze the most mileage out of your setup.
 

73stallion

Bronco Guru
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Messages
16,786
Loc.
Eugene, OR
If you think about it, a 4bbl carb is a 2bbl until you get on it and into the secondaries. That's unless it's a double pumper carb. So 2bbl, 4bbl, doesn't make much difference. I only get about 12 on a good day on the highway, and I'm only running a 470 truck avenger.
 

HOT RAM

Jr. Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2010
Messages
301
Loc.
Shenandoah Valley,VA
I have a Jasper remanufactured 5.0 with 2bbl carb,NP435 trans,4.11 gears,35x14.50 Pitbull Rockers and get 18mpg on the interstate.

I have several other 2bbl carbs that I want to try on it (especially the 1.08 which is the smallest) and see if it changes at all.I am thinking that with a smaller venturi size the air velocity will increase and maybe give slightly better mpg and/or throttle response.

really could not be happier with as it is now (other than alternator/voltage regulator issues)
 
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