Why Dana 60?

[Yeller]

Simple answer, BEEF. Here’s a starter example, compare the ujoints…. The cross on the 60 is 1” wider.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Put the ring gears from a 30,44, and 60 all side by side as well. That will be an interesting picture.

 

[jamesroney]

Cheaper.
Stronger.
Better driveshaft angles.
Superior traction adding differentials.
Easily upgraded to 35 spline.
Removable cover for inspection.
Cheap used gears available in 4.56.

Here’s my new 60. 35 spline ARB, chrome moly axles. 4.88’s with big bearing Explorer discs.

I couldn’t afford a 9 inch.

 

[hossbronco]

The 9 inch has a lot of strengths, but cost isn’t one of them. I’ll take a removable third member over a removable cover, and it can be built to have a stronger center section, with an advantaged hypoid angle and a better driveline angle on a high pinion (again for a hefty price).

But the Dana 60 certainly wins out for me when comparing stock axles, especially on the outer edges where you can get full-floating axles.

 

[1969]

Depends on where you’re going to get ice cream at imo

 

[1969]

1550 ujoints for the win from the factory

 

[Yeller]

If you shave them they have a touch better ground cleaner than a D44

No matter what you do to a 9” unless you use a spool the weak link is the differential/locker. And why my go to rear axle is a 14 bolt, it just a 9” on steroids in every way. I’d post a pic comparing axle shafts but I don’t have any 60 shafts laying around, I don’t need extras. If I have a failure I’ll deal with it then, been working on it for 20 years. I did after about 12 years have to replace both inner shafts from the 80’s army truck the axle came out of. I had stretched the ears enough the ujoints rattled in the holes. Still running the same 1st run Yukon stubs that I got for testing over 20 years ago. Still running the same 1st run of Yukon Extreme lockouts too. Need to see if they will sell me new caps, my early set were laser etched, the writing is long gone lol.

For the record, I despise gear set ups in Dana axles, give me a 9” or 14 bolt any day. I love a 609, but I just can’t bring myself to build one myself, I’ll stick with junk yard Dana 60’s

 

[Yeller]

1550 ujoints for the win

I have a set of rockwells too do 1580’s count? But not practical for your average quality ice cream getter. We all like ice cream oh and pie, time to go to Frenchy’s in Tin Cup CO and get pie

There is some really cool stuff available today, and for some applications they are necessary. I feel fortunate to have had a hand in the development of some of it.

 

[bax]

so if I were to build 60's for my bronco, Do I have to go full width or is there anyone that makes new axles to stock bronco width? I suppose you can get any axle shaft you want is you pay enough for it. before I build a 60 I would build 609's

 

[hossbronco]

I agree that the locker is a weak link on the 9 inch. The differential is strong (though nothing close to a 14 bolt), but space is tight. This is great for axle clearance, but limits the strength of the locker. Going with a larger housing and a 10 inch (which actually measure 9.5”) ring gear helps some, but the beef isn’t there like on the 14 bolt. That being said, the strength to weight ratio of the 9 inch is pretty impressive. But the fact that it’s only a semi-floating axle is what kills it for me.

I love a 609. That’s one sexy axle, though it’s still not as strong as a 14 bolt. For rock crawling and daily driving I love the 609. For rock bouncing and heavy abuse, 14 bolt (or Dana 80 for Ford purists).

 

[1969]

so if I were to build 60's for my bronco, Do I have to go full width or is there anyone that makes new axles to stock bronco width? I suppose you can get any axle shaft you want is you pay enough for it. before I build a 60 I would build 609's

https://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-23993339-dana-60-hp-kingpin-front-axle-tj-xj-mj-zj.html

Never looked into it but I’m sure this would be one of the better routes to do that. They will also do custom axles to any width.

 

[jamesroney]

so if I were to build 60's for my bronco, Do I have to go full width or is there anyone that makes new axles to stock bronco width? I suppose you can get any axle shaft you want is you pay enough for it. before I build a 60 I would build 609's

It's hard to get a 59.5 inch wide D60 to fit under a Bronco. Once you set the coil cups at 36 inches, there's not much room left. The closest I've built was 63 inches wide, and that put the coil cup on the king pin cap. I've always thought of the 609 as the worst of both worlds. Hard to seal, weak ARB's, and expensive when you put big shafts in it. So I like my Pro-Rock 60's. (and yeah, I can probably afford a 9 inch...)

 

[hossbronco]

It's hard to get a 59.5 inch wide D60 to fit under a Bronco. Once you set the coil cups at 36 inches, there's not much room left. The closest I've built was 63 inches wide, and that put the coil cup on the king pin cap. I've always thought of the 609 as the worst of both worlds. Hard to seal, weak ARB's, and expensive when you put big shafts in it. So I like my Pro-Rock 60's. (and yeah, I can probably afford a 9 inch...)

I’m going to have to challenge you on this one; not because I’m wanting to argue, but because I’m here to learn. There are plenty of people on here with more experience than me. This will help me because I have solid plans to build a set of 40 spline high pinion 609 axles with ARBs, though I’m about a year out from starting the process. And yes, I understand the inherent weaknesses of a high pinion rear axle.

The 609 exists because many think it is the best of both worlds. There are obviously many variations to this axle, but if money isn’t a concern, my understanding is that the 609 is clearly better than a Dana 60 (or at least comparable) when built with the best components.

I agree that the ARB is the weak link, but the competition ARB is an improved design with improved materials. It is much better than the standard ARB, and is used on a 10 inch ring gear with 40 spline shafts. Even Dynatrac doesn’t recommend 40 spline shafts for the ProRock 60 because it makes the ring and pinion the weak link. My understanding is that a 609 10 inch ring and pinion is stronger than a Dana 60 ring and pinion, and that the 609 competition ARB, though weaker than a Dana 60 ARB, is still strong enough for heavy competition use. Please explain if you feel otherwise.

Also, I’d really like to understand how you think a 609 is difficult to seal, if you could please elaborate. Thank you.

 

[bmc69]

My old '69 crawler is receiving a beefed up D60 front axle. The current owner and I tore up way to much stuff trying to keep the HP44 in it...including two sets of RCV axles.

I have a D60 under the front of my '78 for the same reason..D44s break so darned easily even after you've thrown a lot of money at them.

 

[Yeller]

I’m going to have to challenge you on this one; not because I’m wanting to argue, but because I’m here to learn. There are plenty of people on here with more experience than me. This will help me because I have solid plans to build a set of 40 spline high pinion 609 axles with ARBs, though I’m about a year out from starting the process. And yes, I understand the inherent weaknesses of a high pinion rear axle.

The 609 exists because many think it is the best of both worlds. There are obviously many variations to this axle, but if money isn’t a concern, my understanding is that the 609 is clearly better than a Dana 60 (or at least comparable) when built with the best components.

I agree that the ARB is the weak link, but the competition ARB is an improved design with improved materials. It is much better than the standard ARB, and is used on a 10 inch ring gear with 40 spline shafts. Even Dynatrac doesn’t recommend 40 spline shafts for the ProRock 60 because it makes the ring gear the weak link. My understanding is that a 609 10 inch ring gear is stronger than a Dana 60 ring gear, and that the 609 competition ARB, though weaker than a Dana 60 ARB, is still strong enough for heavy competition use. Please explain if you feel otherwise.

Also, I’d really like to understand how you think a 609 is difficult to seal, if you could please elaborate. Thank you.

There’s nothing wrong with a 9”/609 in a racer, in fact it’s my preference. In a racer your in them all the time inspecting parts between races, much simpler with a 9”. Also makes swapping broken parts in the pits easier. As for sealing the Seals-it seals are great, simple and easy to change. They hold up quite well, way better long term that most would imagine. Gear Works parts are simply amazingly strong, but designed for a racer, they can’t tell you the longevity of their gears because they don’t really know, but I do know if a few with 20,000+ race miles on them. In other axles with similar metallurgy they wear out after 6-10,000 miles.

To me the bigger debate is the 40 spline axles. We found that we broke more driveline parts with 40 spline than with 300m 35 spline. It’s simple physics, the 35 spline has some give like a torsion bar soaking up shock loads, 40 spline is stiffer sending those impacts up the drivetrain. So unless you’re pushing 800+ HP in a trophy truck or rock bouncer I have a hard time justifying them. 40 spline axles eat 9” progears with 35 spline ponions for a light snack with 500HP. But they live very happily with 35 spline axles. 40 spline aren’t recommended for D60 because of the shock load, the pinion can’t take it.

As for brute strength, in a FRONT. Gear works high pinion hands down all day long, second is hi9. imo a std 9 is right close to a high pinion 60, failures are about equal. In all 3, hi9, std 9, and D60 the pinion is the weak link. In the hi9 and std 9 the pinion shaft twists off, in the std 9 sometimes you’ll brake the gear, just depends, 60 always brakes the gear. if you throw the cash to 10”stuff your down to the differential, even with the competition ARB and why you normally see spools in them.

IMO the 10” stuff is better than an 80 in the rear of a racer, it’s lighter. I even prefer a 14bolt over the 80 for the same reasons. D60’s in the rear are tough, and imo will hang with a 9” only because the 28 spline pinion gives up about the same time as the ring gear on the 60, depending on gear ratio, get past 4.88:1 the 9” begins to gain advantage the deeper you go.

@bax you can affordably get any length axle shaft you want, but James is right, packaging becomes th issue. I’ve built 3 59” wide 60’s and it is just a can of worms. Wound up redoing 2 of the 3, one to 61” and one to 64” the other they made it work but had to change a lot of stuff to make it fit.

So comes down to are you building a trail truck on a modest budget or let it all hang out and build what you want because it’s what you want, by all means I’m for doing what makes your truck yours, you’ll be happy.

I’ve left out the latest crop of super duty axles, get one of those and throw a locker in it and call it done, 35 spline hub to locker and 1550 joints for the win, run it straight out of the box as is. They are just wide. @1969 gave reference to this axle.

PS: when we went to 40 spline it wasn’t due to breaking 35 spline, it was a sponsor/marketing partner deal….

 

[hossbronco]

Thanks for the input, Yeller. Your expertise is always appreciated.

Does gun drilling 40 spline shafts make them more forgiving? If you’re running a competition ARB, 35 spline is not an option. I’ve got 615 HP NA, so I’m one supercharger away from your criteria (if I ever decide to).

 

[Broncobowsher]

My understanding...
Gun drilling an axle just removes mass. The central core of the shaft add no strength but has weight. Too expensive for mass production, but budgets for racing are a lot different.

 

[1969]

Also for the Sterling 10.5 rear you can get the Ford rear factory selectable e locker (part number: BC3Z-4026-B) for around $500 online.

 

[rocknhorse76]

Shaved 14 bolt rear and shaved Dana 60 front!

 

[1969]

Shaved 60 front and shaved 14 bolt rear for the win!

What’s your wms-wms ?