Why Dana 60?

[rocknhorse76]

another upgrade in my future.. Have been VERY fortunate w/shaved 9" and front d44 37s

Go snow wheeling with NVRSTK a few times, and you’ll become very good at praying you don’t grenade your axles. That said, I’m on D60/14B axles now hahaha.

 

[nvrstuk]

I can't believe we are BOTH missing powerplants Tim!! Dang!!

I got confirmation and sonic bore measurements about 5 min ago from Ford Perf 8:15am on a Sat of all things!

 

[rocknhorse76]

At least you got some good news on yours, Brian! Plenty of meat left in those cylinder walls.

 

[hossbronco]

Brian, what happened to the 460W?!? I guess I should read your threads.

 

[nvrstuk]

8 mo story into 75 words or less???

13K miles on my 460. Piston slap. Not typical when it normally gets quieter when you get heat soak. This never gets quieter or goes away.

Past warranty so pulled it. Pistons were sloppy in the bores. Bore gauage showed them overbored at .0062!! Absolutely no taper in any bores. They were straight like they'd been bored that way. Checked Ford Performance (FP) website and they advertised .005-.0055" as their skirt to wall clearance.

So I went to Mahle's page (piston mnfr) and they showed my alloy piston recommended clearance as .0023" to max .003". That's when I called FP and asked WTH?

Then I called Mahle and we talked for half hour. They could not believe what FP was doing with their clearances. Engineer even said, "...are they trying a one size fits all" final bore? There are two pistons for this block. One for nitrous/boost and high detonation resistance which like typical race pistons and expand to fit the clearance (used to use nothing but these 30 yrs ago) and then my alloy piston which does not expand at all (well, less than .0003"). So FP overbored my block by over .003" (which is over 2X the specified amount by Mahle) and with short skirt stroker pistons you don't have much if any skirt on them so you get piston slap.

They asked to see my pistons/rods back in Nov and they stated they were to spec (I'd told them this at least 10 times in emails). Then some FP guy called me and I had a human on the phone (for the first & only time in 8months). He said they need to see the block (which I had asked for in several emails) and in Dec my block was somewhere in an FP warehouse.

NOTHING HAPPENED FOR MONTHS even tho I was emailing once/week. Late Feb now. They said they were sending the block back because I had not warmed it up properly prior to loading it. All kinds of typical "your fault" accusations in their email. Anyway, I gave them a hardnosed backgrd of my experience response that night and a week later no block. Sent another email and they said that the "Engine Engineer" wanted to remeasure it (don't think he ever looked at it before).

Still nothing-

I then sent emails all over US and Europe trying to get in touch with Mark Rushbrook head of ALL of Ford Global Performance. Got some positive feedback from authors and racetrack guys all over the world and then an email from a guy who gave me the email addy of a supervisor who was the supervisor of the guy who wasn't getting anything done for months.

Snails pace to now. Talked to two more Mahle engineers and they confirmed what I was saying and they both know the FP guys I was dealing with.

FP had custom pistons made by Mahle for the approximate bore of my block. I will have to finish hone the block to fit when I get them and FP says they expect them on May 28th. Then I will build it. I had a custom cam designed by Ed for it so that will be fun.

I wouldn't accept pistons until they sonic bored the block to make sure it is usable. FP racing blocks can't be bored out as far as Dart blocks. I'll post all this stuff on my build post as this isn't the place for it.

There's a ton more but...

Was this 75 words or ???

 

[hossbronco]

Wow, that’s crazy! I can’t believe FP’s specs were outside the Mahle specs!

Does FP use 2618 or 4032 for their pistons? I’ve been having the big internal debate. I’m not sure I want to warm up my engine every time I jump in. Stock is hypereutectic.

 

[nvrstuk]

2618, Grafel coated is user friendly

 

[Speedrdr]

@nvrstuk, I didn’t count, but I think you “busted” the 75 word limit. . I have to say; however, after following your engine snafu, that was an amazingly accurate rendition. I’m sure I’m not alone in wishing the best for you with the new block/piston combo.

Randy

 

[nvrstuk]

Yeah, I've never been known to be too brief. Usually get too detailed for most...

Thanks for the encouraging words.

 

[bmc69]

Yeah, I've never been known to be too brief. Usually get too detailed for most...

Thanks for the encouraging words.

.006+ clearance is what I call in my machine shop..."slap wored out". Sorry to be all technical and shit. Like any good shop, I mic the piston skirts, bore the holes to minus 2-3 thou of final target bore and then torque-plate hone the last 2-3 to get to within less than .0005" of the desired final number.

I can't believe they drug out the resolution of such a stunningly large and obvious mistake.

A local feller brough me a 302 block once, to get my opinion. The block was all clean and cam bearings and freeze plugs in it. No ridge, bores looked great. But when you dropped a new piston in the hole it rattled around like a beer can in a bucket. I got my bore gauge out...the bores were on average .008" clearance and with lots of taper. Horrible.

Turns out...the machine shop that did the work was dying and the only poor kid left running it didn't know how to use the boring bar. So he "cleaned the bore up" and sent it out the door. By the time my buddy got back there to have a "wtaf" conversation with the shop, their doors were closed. He actually gave me that block and moved on with a good used engine...I still have that block in my pile of blocks somewhere.

 

[nvrstuk]

Thanks for the positive feedback... been fighting Ford Performance for months -feel like Erin Brokovitch. lol

I knew I was right all along but I should have just bought custom pistons last fall, waited the 3 1/2 months to get them made and been done with it. I kept getting strung along... lessons learned.

 

[okorangebrnco]

I hear ya on the oil. In the summer we would set it in the sun and put it in metal containers. In the winter we would get out the turkey fryer and heat it up.
Don’t worry about the front so much in a high9, not sure on the 10 but the oil level is as high as the bearings so 85/140 is good in my opinion.

D60 oil is 85/140 and on the shelf lol

And my 9 is still in pieces in the shop deciding which direction to go.... New case? New housing? new everything? Or just throw a Daytona pinion in the old case and party? Such a great thread to confuse a guy!

 

[Yeller]

And my 9 is still in pieces in the shop deciding which direction to go.... New case? New housing? new everything? Or just throw a Daytona pinion in the old case and party? Such a great thread to confuse a guy!

For your use, Daytona suport and put it together and DRIVE IT

 

[nvrstuk]

Driving it is important... beats waiting on parts ...

 

[okorangebrnco]

For your use, Daytona suport and put it together and DRIVE IT

Got a good deal on a new case, support, bearings and seals. Should have that thrown together by next week. Then onto brakes! lol

 

[Yeller]

Get it put together, trying to get an "old truck cruise" arranged in the next couple of months, before it gets July hot LOL

 

[Madgyver]

Driving it is important... beats waiting on parts ...

this I know.... whatever hack it takes, I will be driving it to get groceries and getting to the sunsets on the beach..

 

[nvrstuk]

this I know.... whatever hack it takes, I will be driving it to get groceries and getting to the sunsets on the beach..

SOOOOoooo glad to hear there's still a few of us that have these priorities!

 

[hossbronco]

Count me in that camp! Driving the hell out of it, never selling!

 

[nvrstuk]

Count me in that camp! Driving the hell out of it, never selling!

Great to hear!!!