Why Dana 60?

[hossbronco]

Busted Knuckle is a great place to get unit bearings (there are other places as well). They use stock Ford unit bearings that they redrill so you can choose your bolt pattern, where Spidertrax builds their own unit bearings. I don’t think they’re interchangeable, but I’m not positive on that. While I’d think the Spidertrax ones are stronger, you might consider using either stock or Busted Knuckle so you won’t be dependent on Spidertrax down the road when you need to replace them.

The stock Ford unit bearings for 2005+ are plenty strong. I’m not sure why there’s so much hate. Busted Knuckle uses them, as the preferred option, on their rock bouncer custom fabricated 14 Bolt axles, front and rear, with plenty of success. I’d just carry a spare.

 

[jamesroney]

The stock Ford unit bearings for 2005+ are plenty strong. I’m not sure why there’s so much hate. Busted Knuckle uses them, as the preferred option, on their rock bouncer custom fabricated 14 Bolt axles, front and rear, with plenty of success.

wow. Where to begin.
Unit bearings are a fundamentally flawed design. They are typically under-specified, and do not run anywhere near the infinite life regime. When they fail, they are not adjustable, or serviceable. They cannot be flood lubricated, and they fail all the time. As a point of fact, every unit bearing in every application has already consumed part of its life and will eventually fail.

Unit bearings are particularly sensitive to increased leverage from offset loads. When they do fail, they are extremely costly to replace. If the OEM decides to no longer support a particular application, your axle is junk. Try to find a unit bearing for a March of 1998 F350 Super Duty. I chose to sell mine because I had to machine custom flanges because Ford abandoned it.
Busted Knuckle uses a f350 unit bearing with a GAWR of 5600 lbs on a 3600 lb Buggy with about 1500 lbs on the axle, that runs maybe 1000 miles in a lifetime.

Unit bearings also have an insidious and evil failure mode. When they fail, they lose dimensional stability. Camber and brake rotor alignment are lost. Every single Jeep wrangler built since 1988 needs new unit bearings. My 2003 Rubicon is on its 4th set. Running 33’s but currently at 205,000 miles. As the unit bearing fails, toe in also changes. I will note that my 04 Rubicon is at 165,000 miles on its 2nd set. And my JK is at 125,000 on its original set. My F350 ate 2 sets, and my Dodge 2500 got a SolidAxle free spin kit on its 2nd set.

My 67 Bronco still has its original hubs. With proper lubrication and service, it will out-live me.

Unit bearings get hate because they earn it.

 

[Tricky Dick]

Solid Axle or Currie could be a source for a new D44. Early J trucks are the only source I know of for full width used doners, I tossed one recently..... I'd be more interested in using a front axle for a FF unless your are planning on using diff fluid to oil bearings. I would seriously consider unit bearings.

However as of 2024 you can get a great piece from the factory and they are available on Ebay, complete. Jeep now is using a full float Spicer/Dana M220 (modern and hugely upgraded D44) on their Rubicon models that is exactly what your proposing, and they are wide, l've not seen what the actual width is but I know it is in what we consider full width territory. with the advertised track width and knowing the back spacing it is 66ish inches wide. This was originally designed for the 392 Wrangler but is now in every Rubicon. Had this axle been out in 2021 I would have one under the rear of my J truck.

Here's a short video that shows how it is assembled. I've been using unit bearings for a couple of decades building axles, they work well and when properly designed quite robust, especially in a light vehicle. This particular axle has 32 spline shafts too so there is a significant strength gain just in the axle size, even the semi float version is 32 spline.

Cool design. I have a e-locker Ranger M220 (65" WMS) that I was strongly considering building and suddenly it seems inadequate. But from what I'm seeing in Jeeps and Broncos the M220 holds up to 37s all day long and that's the biggest I'd ever want to run on it. There was a rash of 6Gs breaking plug welds for a while though, so the tubes should definitely be welded if building one.

 

[hossbronco]

wow. Where to begin.
Unit bearings are a fundamentally flawed design. They are typically under-specified, and do not run anywhere near the infinite life regime. When they fail, they are not adjustable, or serviceable. They cannot be flood lubricated, and they fail all the time. As a point of fact, every unit bearing in every application has already consumed part of its life and will eventually fail.

Unit bearings are particularly sensitive to increased leverage from offset loads. When they do fail, they are extremely costly to replace. If the OEM decides to no longer support a particular application, your axle is junk. Try to find a unit bearing for a March of 1998 F350 Super Duty. I chose to sell mine because I had to machine custom flanges because Ford abandoned it.
Busted Knuckle uses a f350 unit bearing with a GAWR of 5600 lbs on a 3600 lb Buggy with about 1500 lbs on the axle, that runs maybe 1000 miles in a lifetime.

Unit bearings also have an insidious and evil failure mode. When they fail, they lose dimensional stability. Camber and brake rotor alignment are lost. Every single Jeep wrangler built since 1988 needs new unit bearings. My 2003 Rubicon is on its 4th set. Running 33’s but currently at 205,000 miles. As the unit bearing fails, toe in also changes. I will note that my 04 Rubicon is at 165,000 miles on its 2nd set. And my JK is at 125,000 on its original set. My F350 ate 2 sets, and my Dodge 2500 got a SolidAxle free spin kit on its 2nd set.

My 67 Bronco still has its original hubs. With proper lubrication and service, it will out-live me.

Unit bearings get hate because they earn it.

Wow, maybe I don’t run my vehicles hard enough, but I’ve owned several high mileage vehicles and never once replaced a unit bearing. Of course when the part fails it won’t work properly, but $300 and you’re good to go again. Bring a spare and the swap is a breeze. They’ll be making those 05+ Super Duty unit bearings for decades, and even if they didn’t, a new weld cup, possibly a modified caliper bracket, and you’re good to go with the latest and greatest.

Oh, and it looks like Busted Knuckle has you covered on your 1998 F-350 unit bearing: https://bustedknuckleoffroad.com/co...bearings/products/1991-2004-f350-unit-bearing

 

[Yeller]

I’ve run the spidertrax unit that is internally splined, direct replacement for the 01-04 super duty front and rear on a 4600# racer for over 9000 race and pre run miles with 40” tires. Survived KOH, Ultra4 Series, and Dirt Riot series. After that I have no issue running them, but still doesn’t make me not pine for a serviceable hub with tapered roller bearings. Which I have fail with proper maintenance and lubrication as well, it’s just not as common.

Now I have had experience similar to James as well and understand his distaste. But on the flip side, cars with smaller tires, less weight, and smaller bearings (similar to a Jeep LJ or Tj) live virtually a lifetime. So there are good examples as well. I’d love to see a nice serviceable FF set up that I don’t have to custom build every piece, but I’ve not seen that either in anything under 8 lugs. Not that I have an issue with 8 lug, have a truck that is 5x5.5 that I’m kicking myself for not doing 8 lug….

 

[hossbronco]

I will admit that if I had James’ experience with unit bearings, I’d hate them too. I frankly cannot believe how much he’s had to replace them. I’ve had three vehicles over 150k miles and never had to touch them, and I’ve really used them. They were all Fords. My current DD is a 2005 F-150 on 33s with 189K miles. I just replaced the struts and upper and lower control arms last year, but the unit bearings are running strong. Now I haven’t done a ton of deep mud or river crossings with them (some, but not a lot), so maybe that’s the difference, but I couldn’t be happier. If I have to replace the unit bearings every 200K miles, and I don’t have to service them, that’s worth it. And my hubs don’t stick out a mile.

 

[ntsqd]

Seems to me that the service life of Unit Bearings would be fairly predictable. Eventually you'll know that after X many miles or races or hours in service that it's time to change them regardless of how they look, sound, or feel. I'd rather spend the money early, but get to replace them in my driveway than on the middle of the trail in BFE NV/UT/AZ/ID/KA

Our '96 CTD has had it's Unit Bearings replaced. I did it because the odo shows ~325k (we got it at about 265k) and I've no maint. history for the truck. I don't carry a spare, but I do carry the couple special tools that make the job easier.

With the narrow spacing between the bearings in the unit I can see where they wouldn't have much tolerance for wheel offsets differing from OE by much. Early in our ownership of the CTD I had some traditional back-spaced wheels on it and boy did those make it go down the road like a drunken sailor!! I found a set of H2 wheels to put on it and those cleared that up right away. I've long wondered how much damage those wheels did to the unit bearings. When we get to 400k I'll replace them again, just for GP and piece of mind.

 

[jamesroney]

If he could fly with one foot he'd be doing that now, I'm very sure!

This a bit divergent, but let's say, hypothetically of course, that you wanted a full float D44 rear axle. Use, weight, tire size, etc. really don't need a D60 or heavier and keeping the unsprung weight down is a priority. Where would you buy a tubed bare D44 housing? Can that even be done? If not, known full width donors?

How about Land Rover full float rear disc outers? I think the 2003 Defender has discs and a parking brake.

I once thought of doing it on a 9 inch housing, but a 44 center could work.

 

[jamesroney]

I will admit that if I had James’ experience with unit bearings, I’d hate them too. I frankly cannot believe how much he’s had to replace them. I’ve had three vehicles over 150k miles and never had to touch them, and I’ve really used them. They were all Fords. My current DD is a 2005 F-150 on 33s with 189K miles. I just replaced the struts and upper and lower control arms last year, but the unit bearings are running strong. Now I haven’t done a ton of deep mud or river crossings with them (some, but not a lot), so maybe that’s the difference, but I couldn’t be happier. If I have to replace the unit bearings every 200K miles, and I don’t have to service them, that’s worth it. And my hubs don’t stick out a mile.

Didn’t help that every parts catalog listed the 98-04 unit bearing as a single part number, not knowing that the early 99 was a special 10mm thick flange instead of the later 12mm ones. So my truck was down for almost a month until I could get a set custom machined.

 

[ntsqd]

How about Land Rover full float rear disc outers? I think the 2003 Defender has discs and a parking brake.

I once thought of doing it on a 9 inch housing, but a 44 center could work.

LR's like that are probably the "Salisbury" rear axle. Those are known in the US by a different name, Dana 60.

My thoughts on English parts, having worked on a number of various vintage Brit vehicles, can be summed up by the following: "Only the English could invent a mechanical pencil with 47 moving parts, that leaks oil."

 

[jamesroney]

LR's like that are probably the "Salisbury" rear axle. Those are known in the US by a different name, Dana 60.

My thoughts on English parts, having worked on a number of various vintage Brit vehicles, can be summed up by the following: "Only the English could invent a mechanical pencil with 47 moving parts, that leaks oil."

1965 Salisbury 4H is the Dana 44.

 

[ssray]

Oh, and it looks like Busted Knuckle has you covered on your 1998 F-350 unit bearing: https://bustedknuckleoffroad.com/co...bearings/products/1991-2004-f350-unit-bearing

Noticed a wire hanging off the unit in one picture that is probably for abs. Is the sensor/tone ring integrated into the unit? That would run up the costs for them. It's possible that a failed bearing would take all of that out anyway. Just wondered?

 

[hossbronco]

Noticed a wire hanging off the unit in one picture that is probably for abs. Is the sensor/tone ring integrated into the unit? That would run up the costs for them. It's possible that a failed bearing would take all of that out anyway. Just wondered?

I’m pretty sure it is.

 

[jamesroney]

Noticed a wire hanging off the unit in one picture that is probably for abs. Is the sensor/tone ring integrated into the unit? That would run up the costs for them. It's possible that a failed bearing would take all of that out anyway. Just wondered?

Failed bearing is a funny concept. Wear-out failure can allow the tone ring to just move away from the abs sensor. You might see some strangeness in the wheel speed sensor return signal. Of course you won't know it until your dash does the "Christmas Tree" thing. Then you buy an ABS module, and a real time data acquisition module for your OBD2 port. I bought the Bluetooth enabled BlueDriver module. Then I drove around with a laptop on the console. Eventually I caught the missing wheel speed pulse count, and replaced the single speed sensor, only to find the Unit Bearing to have some slop, but no other symptoms. (no death wobble, no shimmy, no tire wear, no nothing...) And it wasn't easy to feel, with the brake caliper installed. Once I removed the caliper, and re-installed the wheel, I could feel the looseness. Changed the Speed Sensor and symptoms went away. Then replaced the Unit bearing. I forgot about that one. Google "Jeep Wrangler Christmas Tree Dash"

This is the insidious nature of the Unit Bearing. They cause other problems long before they fail enough for the wheel to fall off. Not so much a problem in the front end, because there is a U-joint out on the end to allow for angular misalignment. But not so in the rear end. I encourage anyone that kneels at the Altar of the Unit Bearing to some research on the 2021+ F150 with Tow Package Rear 3/4 float axle RECALL. (Google recall 23s65) This is a textbook example of why you don't use unit bearings in anything that carries a load. https://www.ford.com/support/how-to...150-2021-2023-rear-axle-bolt-breakage-recall/ This design cannot be saved, and there is no resolution. Ford only hopes that your warranty expires before your truck quits. Because the problem is intrinsic to the design.

But yes, if you are lucky enough to get to drive your unit bearing long enough to have it actually expire, it might allow the tone ring to grind off the head of the ABS sensor. And the sensor that comes with the replacement bearing has a less then 50% chance of actually fitting your application. The pigtail length, pinout configuration, and little plastic thingys to hold in in place are usually wrong. So you end up using your old one. But yeah, it makes it more expensive.

Lastly, I don't know how you folks in the rust belt manage your unit bearing service. I've had to do a couple of East Coast XJ Dana 30 hubs from the 90's and the rust and corrosion attack the unit bearing bolt heads (which are way too small) and the unit bearing will seize in the hub bore. There are some tricks to use your power steering to help get them out but I've often been relegated to brute force. Dumbest design ever.

Once again, I do understand that they have a place and time. And if you ONLY need to transmit torque, and you can de-rate your load by 70% like @Yeller (~1500 lbs on a 4900 lb axle) It might get you across the finish line. But planned obsolescence drives me bananas.

So yeah, I'm a hater.

 

[hossbronco]

Wh

Failed bearing is a funny concept. Wear-out failure can allow the tone ring to just move away from the abs sensor. You might see some strangeness in the wheel speed sensor return signal. Of course you won't know it until your dash does the "Christmas Tree" thing. Then you buy an ABS module, and a real time data acquisition module for your OBD2 port. I bought the Bluetooth enabled BlueDriver module. Then I drove around with a laptop on the console. Eventually I caught the missing wheel speed pulse count, and replaced the single speed sensor, only to find the Unit Bearing to have some slop, but no other symptoms. (no death wobble, no shimmy, no tire wear, no nothing...) And it wasn't easy to feel, with the brake caliper installed. Once I removed the caliper, and re-installed the wheel, I could feel the looseness. Changed the Speed Sensor and symptoms went away. Then replaced the Unit bearing. I forgot about that one. Google "Jeep Wrangler Christmas Tree Dash"

This is the insidious nature of the Unit Bearing. They cause other problems long before they fail enough for the wheel to fall off. Not so much a problem in the front end, because there is a U-joint out on the end to allow for angular misalignment. But not so in the rear end. I encourage anyone that kneels at the Altar of the Unit Bearing to some research on the 2021+ F150 with Tow Package Rear 3/4 float axle RECALL. (Google recall 23s65) This is a textbook example of why you don't use unit bearings in anything that carries a load. https://www.ford.com/support/how-to...150-2021-2023-rear-axle-bolt-breakage-recall/ This design cannot be saved, and there is no resolution. Ford only hopes that your warranty expires before your truck quits. Because the problem is intrinsic to the design.

But yes, if you are lucky enough to get to drive your unit bearing long enough to have it actually expire, it might allow the tone ring to grind off the head of the ABS sensor. And the sensor that comes with the replacement bearing has a less then 50% chance of actually fitting your application. The pigtail length, pinout configuration, and little plastic thingys to hold in in place are usually wrong. So you end up using your old one. But yeah, it makes it more expensive.

Lastly, I don't know how you folks in the rust belt manage your unit bearing service. I've had to do a couple of East Coast XJ Dana 30 hubs from the 90's and the rust and corrosion attack the unit bearing bolt heads (which are way too small) and the unit bearing will seize in the hub bore. There are some tricks to use your power steering to help get them out but I've often been relegated to brute force. Dumbest design ever.

Once again, I do understand that they have a place and time. And if you ONLY need to transmit torque, and you can de-rate your load by 70% like @Yeller (~1500 lbs on a 4900 lb axle) It might get you across the finish line. But planned obsolescence drives me bananas.

So yeah, I'm a hater.

While you’re hating on unit bearings, I’d love to hear your take on the 05+ Super Duty Dana 60 unit bearings that are now pretty popular. Beyond your designed to fail, unit bearings suck complaints, do you have any real experience with these particular unit bearings?

 

[jamesroney]

So this is a direct quote from the Tier2 OEM supplier from their website:
https://www.timken.com/products/timken-engineered-bearings/premium-wheel-hub-units/

With our application and engineering expertise, comprehensive service and support, and a strong reputation for quality, we design our premium wheel hub units to improve the efficiency, safety and reliability of automotive applications. We offer a full line of aftermarket premium wheel hub units, including Generation 1, 2 and 3. Plus, Timken premium wheel hub units last twice as long as economy-line units. *

Watch our hub performance video:

* We benchmarked our manufactured wheel hub units against competitive economy-line products. The bearings were for the same vehicle application and were evaluated using the same test conditions. Information derived from Timken Standard Hub/Bearing Accelerated Durability Rig Test. Testing methods accepted by original equipment manufacturers. (SP450300, 513200). Weibull life based on statistically small sample size.

This tells me that there is an accelerated test, and an acceptable range of passing, and a statistical evaluation. Moreover, it makes a distinction within their own BRAND with results predicting failure at 2X life.

So I don't have to hate on them for their specific incompetence and inadequate engineering prowess. I can use their own marketing literature to prove that they have designed in a particular level of obsolescence, and they have the capability to "tune" it at least by 50%. (So they can make the new one 100% better, or they made the old one 50% worse.)

I do not have specific first hand knowledge of the 2005 to 2010 F series unit bearing. But what I do know is that it is predicted to last twice as long as the previous iteration. If it is constructed with Tapered roller bearings, and if the picture is representative of the actual construction...I can tell you that it is better than the earlier version, and still garbage. (but 90% of them will last for infinity in a 3500 lb Bronco)

Keep in mind that the unit bearing hub design usually stronger in pure torsion than a smaller full float design by virtue of the larger splines. This is why you keep seeing them in race applications. Also, if you can find a way to move the applied load center to the area between the rolling element bearings, you can create a longer lasting piece of garbage. This is another reason why deeper offset wheels are becoming more commonplace.

Dynatrac sells a free spin kit for the 05+ Super Duty, as does Solid Axle. My guess is that they don't sell as many for the tapered element Ford application.

 

[ssray]

Once again, I do understand that they have a place and time. And if you ONLY need to transmit torque, and you can de-rate your load by 70% like @Yeller (~1500 lbs on a 4900 lb axle) It might get you across the finish line. But planned obsolescence drives me bananas.

James… I will probably find out at some point as I also have a 2004 Rubi. Picked it up at 45,000 miles and I put 35s on it and installed a Rubicon Express long arm kit on it. Now at 75,000 miles and haven’t noticed any problems so far but I probably should check it and the brake pads as well. It’s a five speed so I don’t romp on the brakes a lot. Still has the original wheels on it so original offset there yet. ”Planned obsolescence” I think I’ve been running into that on other parts. Turn signals got flakey. A wiggle of the flasher module would get them going again. Thought it might be the multifunction switch, but luckily it was just the module. It was bad. Shortly after the fog lights decided to come on and stay on which was the multifunction switch. I did manage to find a fix for that as you can actually still take that switch apart. Of course Jeep doesn’t make the multifunction switch anymore so you have to get that aftermarket if you need it Now my AC only comes out of the floor vent and the knob doesn’t feel right so I imagine the module has failed. Service manual shows me there’s vacuum involved so I’m not sure if there’s a home remedy for that. Totally agree on the “PO“ as that’s what a lot of parts are

Dynatrac sells a free spin kit for the 05+ Super Duty, as does Solid Axle. My guess is that they don't sell as many for the tapered element Ford application.

$$$ Ouch!
Scott

 

[jamesroney]

James… I will probably find out at some point as I also have a 2004 Rubi. Picked it up at 45,000 miles and I put 35s on it and installed a Rubicon Express long arm kit on it. Now at 75,000 miles and haven’t noticed any problems so far but I probably should check it and the brake pads as well. It’s a five speed so I don’t romp on the brakes a lot. Still has the original wheels on it so original offset there yet. ”Planned obsolescence” I think I’ve been running into that on other parts. Turn signals got flakey. A wiggle of the flasher module would get them going again. Thought it might be the multifunction switch, but luckily it was just the module. It was bad. Shortly after the fog lights decided to come on and stay on which was the multifunction switch. I did manage to find a fix for that as you can actually still take that switch apart. Of course Jeep doesn’t make the multifunction switch anymore so you have to get that aftermarket if you need it Now my AC only comes out of the floor vent and the knob doesn’t feel right so I imagine the module has failed. Service manual shows me there’s vacuum involved so I’m not sure if there’s a home remedy for that. Totally agree on the “PO“ as that’s what a lot of parts are

$$$ Ouch!
Scott

The magic fog lights cost me a battery. The relay for the fog lights got tossed. Problem "solved."

The Air conditioning switch module is indeed vacuum operated. They are available cheap from Amazon. Super easy to replace. There's only one vacuum line coming from the engine thru the firewall. As long as it's connected, it's working.

At 205K, my alternator bearings on my 03 started complaining. I ended up replacing it on the freeway. Cost about $300. I bought a bearing kit for my 04 Rubi from Amazon for $15. Super easy to service. That one should be in the PM guide!

Still, the 03-06 Rubicon is legendary. I bought one for each daughter, and a JKUR for the wife. Send me a PM if you need any help.

 

[hossbronco]

My problem with the Dynatrac free spin kits is that they don’t sell a 40 spline, even though they sell a 40 spline manual hub. Of course it’s not really necessary in a Dana 60 because the ring and pinion becomes the weak link, but the 609 has a stronger gear set, especially when using 10 inch gears, so there’s a benefit to having 40 spline axles (assuming the locker holds up).

I plan on running RCV Big Bells. They make them to direct-engage with the 05+ Dana 60s and the Spidertrax unit bearings, but I don’t think there’s an option for traditional spindles. Perhaps with enough money you can get them to custom make a set. I think I’ll just stick with my PO unit bearings.