Wristed/ Extended Arm Steering (Long Travel?????)

[Kirby N.]

I am wondering what you guys are running for a drag link with a Wristed arm or extended arms. I am running Rancho RS 9012s and 6.5" BC coils. I really want to wrist an arm for some more travel, but my drag link is maxed on travel as it is. The hiems go from fullmisalignment to full misalignment from droop to stuff. What are you guys running? Do tie rod ends have more travel? Should I run a tierod on the pitman arm? Do you have any pictures of your setup?

Here is a picture of my current setup:
My Steering

I am not getting amazing flex right now and I am a little dissapointed. Her is a picture of my truck on the ramp. (If you haven't guessed yet it is a 93 Mazda Navajo (Explorer Sport) with EB front suspension I put in)
Ramp

A friend who owns a shop locally and competes nationally in Rock Crawling tried to convince me that I have plenty of travel and I need to either forget about it or wrist the arm and add a limiting strap. I just can't lead myself to believe that...

Thanks!!!

 

[76Broncofromhell]

It looks like your only option is going to be high steer or moving the steering box. Early Bronco's with TRO and heims benefit from having the steering box on the outside of the frame, so usually rod end bind isn't a problem.

You could try the high steer method by using flat top knuckles and running your arms higher up.

As far as the arms - I would go with extended. I've run both and I like extended a lot better because you don't have to get out and mess with the pin, they help the caster far better, and are bent inward to allow full turning. The flex difference between the two is negligable.

I hope this helped.

 

[ORVP]

Here is what I did.

It still needs work to the track bar to stop the bump steer.

 

[welndmn]

You could go to a chevy TRE as they have more angle then a Heim.
Also, What is the misalinment on your current heims?

 

[68 Broncoholic]

The stock EB drag link can flex further than a heim. If I were you get the Chevy 1 ton ends and do a tie rod over conversion. Best of both worlds and are stocked in all auto stores when you need one.
Some heat up the pitman arm and give it a bit of twist to help.

Here's the comparison photos...

 

[Kirby N.]

Hmm. That makes sense that the steering Box on a EB is outside the frame and that gives you guys an advantage. That has probably been what I have been overlooking.


My current Hiems are 3/4" Hiems with 3/4" Bolts so the only misalignment bushings I can run are the 3/4" spacers that pull the pitman arm and bolt head away from the hiem. I realize I could get slightly more travel out of them if I figured out how to run a 5/8" bolt, but I would also have to have a weld in sleeve made for my pitman arm because the hole is tapered from the factory. I am thinking about moving my bottom draglink Hiem to the tierod and using a tie rod end on the pitman arm.


I don't think a high steer setup would help. I have the "s" bend in my drag link and the hiems go fully from one misalignment to the other. wouldn't I experience the same thing with a staight drag link and high steer?

 

[Broncoholics]

Hmm. That makes sense that the steering Box on a EB is outside the frame and that gives you guys an advantage. That has probably been what I have been overlooking.


My current Hiems are 3/4" Hiems with 3/4" Bolts so the only misalignment bushings I can run are the 3/4" spacers that pull the pitman arm and bolt head away from the hiem. I realize I could get slightly more travel out of them if I figured out how to run a 5/8" bolt, but I would also have to have a weld in sleeve made for my pitman arm because the hole is tapered from the factory. I am thinking about moving my bottom draglink Hiem to the tierod and using a tie rod end on the pitman arm.


I don't think a high steer setup would help. I have the "s" bend in my drag link and the hiems go fully from one misalignment to the other. wouldn't I experience the same thing with a staight drag link and high steer?

I never understand why guys go with an S bend. Unless they are using it to clear something(like a leaf spring), its of no use. A straight draglink would work just fine and be much stronger in the long run. Highsteer would definitely help get the steering back to a more managable angle as well. Also, the Chevy setup cannot bind on the knuckle side at all, so the only place it can bind is at the pitman arm and the Chevy TREs have a ton of travel in them.

Also, I can't see it in the pics, but is the draglink mounted on the top or bottom of the pitman arm?

 

[crawln68]

Here are a couple of pics of what I did. The first picture shows the steering box mounted to the outside of the frame. The second picture shows my flat top knuckles w/high steer arms. For the drag link, trac bar and tie rod I used straight DOM with hiems on the ends. I might still need to drop my upper trac bar mount down a bit to help control bump steer.

 

[tonto]

Is you axle track bar mount contacting your frame on full compresion?
Sure looks like it might, all though I do like the design.

 

[68 Broncoholic]

I was thinking of a drop pitman arm but this will cause the drag link and trac bar to be way off from one another. Plus you said it binds in both directions? Damn!

My drag link is twice as steep as yours with stock EB TRE's, 4.5" lift and TRO. I run a wristed arm and it drops quite a ways without bind. Before the TRO conversion it was even worse but still didn't have problems.
Better add the Chevy ends at least on the drag link.

Here's some info if needed...

Autozone Online Prices:
ES2233L $25.99 Passenger side tie rod (with drag link attachment hole)
ES2234R $24.99 Driver side tie rod
ES2027L $24.99 Left hand threaded drag link end
ES2026R $24.99 Right hand threaded drag link end

 

[crawln68]

Is you axle track bar mount contacting your frame on full compresion?
Sure looks like it might, all though I do like the design.

That was my delima in building it any taller. I THINK it will be ok were it is, but I haven't had a chance to test it out in real world conditions yet. If it does hit, I can either shorten it a little bit or just bump stop it. ;D

 

[tonto]

Sorry for hi-jacking with my previous ?
To address the original ?, I think a tie rod over coversion on the knuckes with a saddle like B.C. sells that wraps around the tie rod tor the drag link to attach to and the drag link bolt will mount horizontal through instead of vertical through the knuckle, which should never bind at that end.

Might be easier to get another pitman arm and ream it for the chevy tre instead of trying to work with the one you have.

 

[SaddleUp]

I was thinking of a drop pitman arm but this will cause the drag link and trac bar to be way off from one another. Plus you said it binds in both directions? Damn!

My drag link is twice as steep as yours with stock EB TRE's, 4.5" lift and TRO. I run a wristed arm and it drops quite a ways without bind. Before the TRO conversion it was even worse but still didn't have problems.
Better add the Chevy ends at least on the drag link.

Here's some info if needed...

Autozone Online Prices:
ES2233L $25.99 Passenger side tie rod (with drag link attachment hole)
ES2234R $24.99 Driver side tie rod
ES2027L $24.99 Left hand threaded drag link end
ES2026R $24.99 Right hand threaded drag link end

I beat these prices through Baxters about a year ago. Total cost was about $83 I think. I know Baxters isn't available everywhere but thought I would mention it for anyone that is willing to put some time into searching since they may be able to find a better price. (Yes, I'm a cheapskate when I can get away with it)

 

[Kirby N.]

I never understand why guys go with an S bend. Unless they are using it to clear something(like a leaf spring), its of no use. A straight draglink would work just fine and be much stronger in the long run. Highsteer would definitely help get the steering back to a more managable angle as well. Also, the Chevy setup cannot bind on the knuckle side at all, so the only place it can bind is at the pitman arm and the Chevy TREs have a ton of travel in them.

Also, I can't see it in the pics, but is the draglink mounted on the top or bottom of the pitman arm?

Because I bent it with an "s" bend, the hiems sit almost level at ride height. That gives them equal amount of travel when my passenger side droops and when my passenger side stuffs. I tested it with a straight draglink and it got maybe an inch of droop before running out of misalingment. Does that help you understand why people run an "s" bend? I think the hack "z" links you see on spring over'd rigs are a lame, cheap solution, but my steering was almost $200 and I put the bend in it for functionality.

The drag link is on the bottom of the pitman arm. I tested it on top (not for travel reasons, but for bump steer reasons with the tierod over the knuckles as well), but it forces me to run significant misalignment bushings to get all the travel, then it runs into the frame at full left lock.

Are you sure highsteer would fix my problem? My theory is that high steer would do nothing for me since I am running into problems at both full stuff and full droop and my hiems are manageably level at ride height.

Thank you for the advice. I think I will look into tierod ends at least on the pitman arm side. Unfortunately this is the only solution I can see from here. I am satisfied with the heims on my tierod and I am not sure how to run heims on the tirod and a tierod end on the lower mount of the drag link. (that sounds confusing!!!) Any idea how I can run Chevy tie rod ends on a stock explorer pitman arm? Doesn't Ford make an acceptable TRE?

 

[Kirby N.]

Sorry for hi-jacking with my previous ?
To address the original ?, I think a tie rod over coversion on the knuckes with a saddle like B.C. sells that wraps around the tie rod tor the drag link to attach to and the drag link bolt will mount horizontal through instead of vertical through the knuckle, which should never bind at that end.

Might be easier to get another pitman arm and ream it for the chevy tre instead of trying to work with the one you have.

I can do a tierod over conversion by just moving my tierod over- I already drilled the knuckles for the 3/4" bolt I can just move the tierod over the knuckle.

That is a cool saddle. It might be worth while to buy it insted of make it if it is cheap enough. I didn't know Bc sold them. I will check it out. How do I go about reeming a stock pitman arm for the Chevy TRE?

Anyone ever heard of bind caused from mounting the draglink on the Tierod? A guy told me that it causes extra stress on the passenger side hiem and could cause it to twist and break. Is this not a problem with TREs?

Thanks!

 

[Kirby N.]

I was thinking of a drop pitman arm but this will cause the drag link and trac bar to be way off from one another. Plus you said it binds in both directions? Damn!

My drag link is twice as steep as yours with stock EB TRE's, 4.5" lift and TRO. I run a wristed arm and it drops quite a ways without bind. Before the TRO conversion it was even worse but still didn't have problems.
Better add the Chevy ends at least on the drag link.

Here's some info if needed...

Autozone Online Prices:
ES2233L $25.99 Passenger side tie rod (with drag link attachment hole)
ES2234R $24.99 Driver side tie rod
ES2027L $24.99 Left hand threaded drag link end
ES2026R $24.99 Right hand threaded drag link end

Thank you! Is that stock EB part #s or chevy stuff? If you are running TREs maybe I should do that instead. Too bad I already drilled my knuckles to 3/4" holes and spent the $$$ for the good heims!!!

 

[Fishmanndotcom]

Thank you! Is that stock EB part #s or chevy stuff? If you are running TREs maybe I should do that instead. Too bad I already drilled my knuckles to 3/4" holes and spent the $$$ for the good heims!!!

those numbers are for the chevy TRE's. back when i did the swap Napa actually had the best prices! you might check them.... its the same p/n's.

i think i paid max of like $40 for left and right hand TRE's. also i went with DOM and I am so glad i did. it may be overkill but never have i ever had to worry about buckling anything steering. just a thought

-cutts-

 

[Broncoholics]

Because I bent it with an "s" bend, the hiems sit almost level at ride height. That gives them equal amount of travel when my passenger side droops and when my passenger side stuffs. I tested it with a straight draglink and it got maybe an inch of droop before running out of misalingment. Does that help you understand why people run an "s" bend? I think the hack "z" links you see on spring over'd rigs are a lame, cheap solution, but my steering was almost $200 and I put the bend in it for functionality.

The drag link is on the bottom of the pitman arm. I tested it on top (not for travel reasons, but for bump steer reasons with the tierod over the knuckles as well), but it forces me to run significant misalignment bushings to get all the travel, then it runs into the frame at full left lock.

Are you sure highsteer would fix my problem? My theory is that high steer would do nothing for me since I am running into problems at both full stuff and full droop and my hiems are manageably level at ride height.

Thank you for the advice. I think I will look into tierod ends at least on the pitman arm side. Unfortunately this is the only solution I can see from here. I am satisfied with the heims on my tierod and I am not sure how to run heims on the tirod and a tierod end on the lower mount of the drag link. (that sounds confusing!!!) Any idea how I can run Chevy tie rod ends on a stock explorer pitman arm? Doesn't Ford make an acceptable TRE?

Just ream the pitman arm to accept the Chevy TRE. That is what we all had to do when we converted to the Chevy stuff. Same with the knuckles and passenger TRE.

BTW, I understand why the S is in the draglink for heim clearance, but I just think there is a much better way to do it where it wouldn't bind. Tie-rod ends are you answer. But, not even the TREs are going to help a stock bronco front suspension flex any better than in those pics.

 

[Kirby N.]

BTW, I understand why the S is in the draglink for heim clearance, but I just think there is a much better way to do it where it wouldn't bind. Tie-rod ends are you answer. But, not even the TREs are going to help a stock bronco front suspension flex any better than in those pics.

I know it won't flex more than that stock, but I want to wrist the arm, so it will flex more. That is why I am trying to get this figured out because the steering is going to be the first thing holding me back.

Where do you get the reeming bit for that? Is there a certain size? Do you just stop when you get through or what? Thanks for the pics I like how the passenge side mounts the tie rod.

 

[Kirby N.]

those numbers are for the chevy TRE's. back when i did the swap Napa actually had the best prices! you might check them.... its the same p/n's.

i think i paid max of like $40 for left and right hand TRE's. also i went with DOM and I am so glad i did. it may be overkill but never have i ever had to worry about buckling anything steering. just a thought

-cutts-

Thanks man. My current setup is DOM. Maybe I could save at least the Tierod and tap it. Steel is so expensive these days.