ZF installation ?? for those who've installed one.

[67halfcab]

I'm installing a ZF into a 67' and need to know the Cut dimensions in the Tunnel and the Location. If someone can give me the dimension where to cut and how big, I sure would appreciate it.

I'd like to not have to find this out the Hard way. ;D

TIA

And for those who care, this is going in Slick's 67.

His truck, his parts, his money and I get to play ;D

 

[edge4]

Do you have a body lift? I did mine with no body lift and I had to cut a lot, including the moulding tab on the drivers side of the tranny. I also had the hole cut-out from the old Duff/Hurst 3 speed. I ended up making a diamond plate tunnel cover for the whole thing. If you look at the pic of Wade's install on the 500 links, he cut an amazingly small hole for his.
See Photos:

 

[67halfcab]

[quote author=edge4 link=board=5;threadid=20580;start=0#msg158535 date=1059531108]
Do you have a body lift? I did mine with no body lift and I had to cut a lot, including the moulding tab on the drivers side of the tranny. I also had the hole cut-out from the old Duff/Hurst 3 speed. I ended up making a diamond plate tunnel cover for the whole thing. If you look at the pic of Wade's install on the 500 links, he cut an amazingly small hole for his.
See Photos:

[/quote]

I saw wade's picture and was hoping to get away with a small hole like he has and avoid a hole like yours. ;D

I can get my hands on some mirror'd stainless steel sheets that would look cool but like I said I'd like to keep the holes small.

 

[67halfcab]

Still looking for some dimensions. :-

Anyone? :'(

Please?

Pretty please ;D

 

[Bronco73]

67halfcab, does the the stock 205 transfer case bolt right up to the ZF trans? I only ask in hopes you may know the answer.

It seems cheaper to install a 205 than to buy the spud shaft adapter. I think I got that right.

 

[jpoore]

[quote author=Bronco73 link=board=5;threadid=20580;start=0#msg159619 date=1060276061]
67halfcab, does the the stock 205 transfer case bolt right up to the ZF trans? I only ask in hopes you may know the answer.

It seems cheaper to install a 205 than to buy the spud shaft adapter. I think I got that right.
[/quote]

Yes, a Ford 205 will bolt up. The mounting flange of the ZF must be notched for one of the TC shift rails.

I hope to have this installed by the end of the month.

JP

 

[supermottl]

[quote author=jpoore link=board=5;threadid=20580;start=0#msg159622 date=1060276595]
[quote author=Bronco73 link=board=5;threadid=20580;start=0#msg159619 date=1060276061]
67halfcab, does the the stock 205 transfer case bolt right up to the ZF trans? I only ask in hopes you may know the answer.

It seems cheaper to install a 205 than to buy the spud shaft adapter. I think I got that right.
[/quote]

Does the 205 come bolted to the ZF from the factory??? (just for my info) sorry to hi0jack

Yes, a Ford 205 will bolt up. The mounting flange of the ZF must be notched for one of the TC shift rails.

I hope to have this installed by the end of the month.

JP
[/quote]

 

[67halfcab]

[quote author=Bronco73 link=board=5;threadid=20580;start=0#msg159619 date=1060276061]
67halfcab, does the the stock 205 transfer case bolt right up to the ZF trans? I only ask in hopes you may know the answer.

It seems cheaper to install a 205 than to buy the spud shaft adapter. I think I got that right.
[/quote]

Yes it is a direct bolt up. The only thing is you need to cut the ZF on one side to make clearance for the 205 shifter

 

[jpoore]

Does the 205 come bolted to the ZF from the factory??? (just for my info) sorry to hi0jack

No, Ford used only the BW cases by that time (and I think NVs of late). I think Dodge carried the NP205 as an option into the 90s.

From what I have seen, you ditch the NP adapter and bolt the TC directly to the tranny. This is why you must notch the tranny. Normally the adapter is used with the TC and it has the nessessary clearance.

My $0.02: A D20 adapter runs ~$500. However the output shaft can be marginal, so figure another ~400 for BC's output shaft. Now you have a $1000 D20 (assuming you already had the TC).

The NP205 is damn near indestructable. The gear ratio isn't great, but you can bolt up a NP203 doubler for ~$700. These are bullitproof too. So-> ZF+NP203+NP205= bad ass drivetrain for ~$2000.

Hope I'm not missing anything here...

JP

 

[Bronco73]

[quote author=jpoore link=board=5;threadid=20580;start=0#msg159694 date=1060301783]


Does the 205 come bolted to the ZF from the factory??? (just for my info) sorry to hi0jack

No, Ford used only the BW cases by that time (and I think NVs of late). I think Dodge carried the NP205 as an option into the 90s.

From what I have seen, you ditch the NP adapter and bolt the TC directly to the tranny. This is why you must notch the tranny. Normally the adapter is used with the TC and it has the nessessary clearance.

My $0.02: A D20 adapter runs ~$500. However the output shaft can be marginal, so figure another ~400 for BC's output shaft. Now you have a $1000 D20 (assuming you already had the TC).

The NP205 is damn near indestructable. The gear ratio isn't great, but you can bolt up a NP203 doubler for ~$700. These are bullitproof too. So-> ZF+NP203+NP205= bad ass drivetrain for ~$2000.

Hope I'm not missing anything here...

JP

[/quote]

jpoore, you say the NP205 won't fit but then you say it will. I am not sure what BW means yet either. Are you saying a later model NP205 from a dodge will work and not the Ford unit? Do you mean ZF+NP205 or NP203 would be a good choice? thanks

 

[Slick]

[quote author=Bronco73

jpoore, you say the NP205 won't fit but then you say it will. I am not sure what BW means yet either. Are you saying a later model NP205 from a dodge will work and not the Ford unit? Do you mean ZF+NP205 or NP203 would be a good choice? thanks


What he is say'n is that "NO a NP205 has NEVER come stock mated to a ZF trans from the factory".

The ZF is an all alunimum case : and the 205 is all steel :- and the 205 actually weighs as much or more than the ZF :'( .

The Ford 1356 is what came stock on a ZF in the F250. It is a HD chain driven TC, and is much wider than a gear driven T-case.

If you use a 1356 you must cut the frame to accomidate the new T-case width and hence that is why NOBODY wants to use the 1356... if that was your next qestion


8)

 

[Bronco73]

I see, maybe I didn't ask the question right the first time. I know the 205 is not stock on a ZF. I just wanted to know if it fit. The last time I had asked this question I never got a straight answer. Thanks to all I now know what I need to look for.

 

[jpoore]

[quote author=Bronco73 link=board=5;threadid=20580;start=0#msg159935 date=1060375309]
I see, maybe I didn't ask the question right the first time. I know the 205 is not stock on a ZF. I just wanted to know if it fit. The last time I had asked this question I never got a straight answer. Thanks to all I now know what I need to look for.
[/quote]

Let's try agian...

The NP205 will bolt up to the ZF without adapters- they both use the standard ford 6 bolt interface. However since the NP205 never was available with the ZF from the factory, you must notch the mounting ring on the ZF to make room for the shift rail. No big deal.

The NP205 is heavier than a D20 (138 lbs vs 80 lbs), but NP205s were designed to use their own crossmember. Seems pretty easy (famous last words?) to fab one so that the zf isn't bearing all the weight of the NP205.

Since they both use the Ford 6 bolt pattern, you could bolt a NP203 in as well, but this guy has a diff. for awd- i.e. in stock form it's BIG. By using only the reduction part of a NP203 along with an NP205 you can build a crawler box.

These links should explain it a little better.

http://www.truckpulls.com/Transfercaseimages/Transfer_Case_Image_Index.htm

http://offroaddesign.com/catalog/doubler.htm

Hopefully I'll have a write up soon- I just bought an NP205- the last piece I needed.

JP

 

[Bronco73]

Thanks jpoore, its amazing what they can come with.

Maybe you can help me with a couple of other questions. I would like to install a 5-speed and a ZF would be nice. I don't plan on of roading and I am not sure there is a place to off road anyways where I live. So would you just use the stock TC. The bronco should only see pavement driving. I have a 73 bronco with a 302 3-speed. Not sure what the TC is yet. Still learning and have tried to figure it out yet.

Second question is it looks like the 2 wheel ZF trans could just have the back cover replaced with a 4x4 one making it a 4x4 trans. I have heard the out put shaft has different splines and I have also heard that it is to short. I never heard the two things from the same person and no one really seams to know.

Thanks for you help. I have saved the links in my favs.

 

[67halfcab]

[quote author=Bronco73 link=board=5;threadid=20580;start=0#msg159827 date=1060344138]
I am not sure what BW means yet either.
[/quote]

BW stands for BorgWarner

 

[Bronco73]

That makes sense. thanks

 

[Slick]

[quote author=Bronco73 link=board=5;threadid=20580;start=0#msg159970 date=1060383252]


Not sure what the TC is yet. Still learning and have tried to figure it out yet.

[/quote]

TC is short for T-ransfer C-ase.

....Just incase ya don't know, it's the deal on the end of the transmition that drives the front and rear axels ;D



8)

 

[Bronco73]

Yea, I got that one after a little thought. thanks

 

[jpoore]

[quote author=Bronco73 link=board=5;threadid=20580;start=0#msg159970 date=1060383252]
Thanks jpoore, its amazing what they can come with.

Maybe you can help me with a couple of other questions. I would like to install a 5-speed and a ZF would be nice. I don't plan on of roading and I am not sure there is a place to off road anyways where I live. So would you just use the stock TC. The bronco should only see pavement driving. I have a 73 bronco with a 302 3-speed. Not sure what the TC is yet. Still learning and have tried to figure it out yet.

Second question is it looks like the 2 wheel ZF trans could just have the back cover replaced with a 4x4 one making it a 4x4 trans. I have heard the out put shaft has different splines and I have also heard that it is to short. I never heard the two things from the same person and no one really seams to know.

Thanks for you help. I have saved the links in my favs.
[/quote]

While it is technically possible to convert a 2wd zf to 4wd, the costs would be unreal. You'd have to buy these parts new- if you could find them. The ZF parts lists I have don't even list these as available parts, but with enough $$$ anything is possible.

The 2wd version with the external parking brake works (its just a 4wd version but with a parking brake drum instead of a TC).

The EB has a Dana 20 TC (as shown in the pics on the top of the post). Good box, but not worth dumping $1000 into, IMHO.

If you plan on doing mostly road driving and aren't worried about off-roading, the Mazda 5-sp tranny found in 80-90? F-150/Bronco might be a option. These are generally cheap cause they don't have a super low first (I think) and they aren't super strong. They should be fine for on-roading, though.

If you've got $$$, you can mate the D20 to any tranny you like- even GM/Dodge. Wild Horses (WH) sells a kit using a Dodge NV4500.

Do plenty of research first and then spend time collecting parts.

JP

 

[Bronco73]

I have found a mazda tranny for $350 complete. It's still in the truck. It looks like the conversion kit will run around $500 because I need a spud shaft adapter.

I may go yhis route due to the cost and how the truck will be driven which by the way will be by the wife.

Why would I have to dump $1,000's into the D20? Is it just because of the adapeters or are you refering to beefing the TC up? For me I will be lucky if I will ever need the 4X4 engaged.

As for the parts for the 4x2 trans the rear cover is only $170 and I haven't gotten a price on the output shaft yet. The cover was found by another person from this board. I have a friend that works on big trucks. He's looking into this for me as well and they have a 4x2 trans that they just removed from a truck not to long ago. If I can get a 4x2 trans for a $200 or less it just may be worth while. Do you have a part number for the output shaft for both the 4x2 and the 4x4 trans? They wouldn't happend to be the same would they? If you do have the numbers could you post them?

Thanks again for your time.