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Sniper, Atomic, Fitech? Lets beat a dead horse!

LoneRanger

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It was Fitech to start, then Atomic, now Sniper?

holy smokes....



Got to have EFI for Pandas 67' "Scratches" full rebuild happening now. I need to order, and have been watching videos on youtube I'm more confused than when I started! I think* I am leaning towards the MSD Atomic though I couldnt tell you exactly why! ;D

Motor is a 302 roller out of a 97' explorer rebuilt to stock specs. AOD trans, 2" lift, 30" tires. Street driver truck. New centech harness.



Annnnnnd GO!

L.R. :cool:
 

hyghlndr

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I bought Fitech and like it, support is less than ideal. Sniper is done by Holley who does a great job on technical help (helped me with a 15 year old system that 2 previous owners didn't ever install) and will likely be around for many years to come for parts and support. MSD I have less familiarity with but I have had a number of MSD boxes and distributors go bad over the years and never covered warranty...

Thank FiTech for driving the prices down (Holley has always been way to expensive for the efi setups). Probably buy the Holley Sniper....
 

rguest3

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I have had 2 FiTechs systems with good success and would install them again.
 

Broncobowsher

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I shopped around at SEMA for this info. I passed on Atomic. MSD was bought by Holley. It appears to be a legacy product only. It existed before the merger, still sell some, whatever.

FAST looked promising, but I want spark control

FiTech has a lot of options. Even one that really looks like an old Holley double pumper (remote computer helps the looks). Duel feed line look but one is supple and the other return. For pure asthetic this is my choice. Also lots of good online reviews. But they didn't have any good tech people to talk to. Looks pretty, but nothing to back the looks. Was not impressed by that.

But the Holley Sniper is my pick. I will be ordering one in the spring. Talked with the tech people and they were on top of it. Even understood unusual ideas. timing control. Laptop software so the little hand help programmer can be set aside and do real laptop work. Lots of flexibility and very well referenced manuals.

Try this, download both manuals and read through them. How adjustable are the setting and are they explained what they do? I liked the Holley.
 

DirtDonk

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It's hard to say what's going to be your best purchase Clayton (get it? Clayton? Lone Ranger? Arrr arrr...)%) Or maybe you're more the John Hart style...
Sorry, was just watching the first season episodes last week. Now, where were we again?

Oh yeah, all the TBI's you mention work well in most cases. With a stock cam none of them should cause you any grief. The FiTech seems to be very forgiving of bigger cams and even the divided plenum style intakes. So too the Holley, but not as much feedback on them yet.
The Atomic is and was an excellent unit. I'm not aware of any customers having had to warranty any aspect of the units, but seem to remember someone or another returning at least one of each of the ones you mention. More trouble lately with FiTech, but that's usually the Command Center users, or those without good electrical systems. Usually because they can't get things worked out on their individual rigs and go back to carburetors.
Those last especially are usually due to poor condition of the existing wiring more than problems with the EFI setups themselves.

We've been selling all three of those you mention, but the MSD unit has been on the market longer and so there are more miles under their belt. But so far both the FiTech and Holley units have proven to be pretty reliable and "non-finicky" for the most part.
Johnny still hasn't touched his after the initial setup five years ago or so. He's so happy with it he doesn't even feel like fine-tuning it with tricks that the manufacturer says will make it run at it's best. It's just too good as it is.

I think so far the reason we hear more about the FiTech and any trouble they're having is due to more people using them because of the lower price and good timing. The Holley is just too new for us to have as much feedback from customers.
But I would tend to agree that Holley tech and customer service have been top notch over the past few years. Plenty of reports here about that.
FiTech support can be very good too, but seems less consistent in that regard.

All three use easy to find and replace components such as sensors (typically GM based stuff) but I don't know anyone that's yet had to mess with that kind of thing.
All have the sensors and ECU mounted directly to the throttle body. Heat does not ever have seem to come up in any discussion that I've heard. Other than wondering about it that is.
The separate box on the MSD is not it's brains. Just a separate relay switching and control module. All the important stuff is right on that super clean throttle body design.
I think they all look cool, but have to give the nod to the Atomic for slick style and clean looks. Almost easier to pass for a carburetor than the others. Not that anyone looking closely would mistake one for a carburetor, but it's definitely a slick design.

Bang for the buck has to go to the FiTech 400 I'd say. At more than double the price, the Atomic was not a bargain, but they've obviously felt the heat because now it's the same price (within 4 bucks anyway) of the others, but with the Master Kit at $1250 and free shipping right now, price isn't a stumbling block anymore.

All three will control the timing at the $1000 mark, so are on pretty equal footing.
Seems like looks and company preference might play a bigger role than we'd like to admit at this point!

For fuel delivery I'm still recommending separate pumps and return lines for any Bronco owner. But I do not hear much bad about the Edelbrock and other brands of fuel delivery systems. Only the FiTech Command Center has so much negative feedback from what I've seen. I have not searched online for complaint forum discussions though.
But if you've already got a larger 23 gallon tank like the Sherman you're practically set up for EFI already. Just need the pump kit and away you go.

Sorry I could not tell you one was da bomb and the others were bombs LoneRanger. But they're all going to get you the upgraded driveability of EFI I would say.

Good luck in the decision!

Paul
 

ransil

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Sep 6, 2003
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Ford Mustang or Explorer EFI would be my fist choice.

Fitech after running behind that guy on the trail last year I would research that one better.

Holley has had a lot of practice, I had the original projection.
 

Broncobowsher

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I too had an old projection. But that is ancient history. The new stuff has nothing in common. I will give credit to Holley for lessons learned, they learned what they did wrong and went away from it. The old stuff was trying to make EFI act like a carb. That is long gone. You now get EFI that acts like EFI, and programs like EFI, not like a carb. That stuff was 2 major generations ago.
 

DirtDonk

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Every Pro-Jection setup I saw back then had an amazing amount of fuel splashing up and out of the throttle-body with the air cleaner off. The injectors literally pounded the backside of the throttle blades with high-pressure (well high by carb standards anyway) gas to the point that it looked like more bounced back up than was used in the engine.
Remember that funky tin ring thingy they came out with after the fact that was supposed to fix some of the running issues? Never quite got how that was supposed to help much, but it was worth a try.
I wonder if I still have the "TBI-in-a-bucket" laying around here somewhere. Never did try to install it on either of my trucks.

Paul
 

DirtDonk

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Ford Mustang or Explorer EFI would be my fist choice.
Fitech after running behind that guy on the trail last year I would research that one better.

It's definitely all about the tuning. They just do what we (or the factory programming) tell them to do. And by this time, not all engines were created equal. But the factories definitely have that end handled pretty good.

I think one of the problems you were seeing though (I mean breathing) is that overcoming the self-tuning aspect is the wide leeway they give owners to tune the fuel/air mixtures themselves. And the manufacturers seem to recommend an overly rich mix from what I've seen.
12 or 13 to one ratios at idle and cruise and decel? 11:1 or richer under power? Not ever engine is a hot-cammed race engine, so I'm not sure what they're trying to save here. Your engine, or their butts.
They should offer choices to the owner. Tell them that for best efficiency they should shoot for more in the high-thirteens to high-fourteens under no-load and low-load conditions instead.
Maybe I'm way of here, but for years we've been trying to achieve 14.7:1 ratios in as many proper conditions as possible. With even leaner being desirable if ignitions and other controls were up to it. And only going rich when needed under power. And even then only just enough to keep things safe.
Anyway, just thinking out loud that you might have been driving behind one that was being falsely forced to run rich. Or an ignition system that just wasn't up to snuff for burning the mixture in an older and less efficient combustion chamber like many of us still have.

For those that have set some up recently, what A/F ratio were they trying to get you to achieve?

Paul
 

ransil

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Guess I should have been clear, I was driving behind a guy with the underhoid fuel thing that kept overheating and shutting down.

I have been behind many carbs they stink...

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phred

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I’ve installed the old Holley projection, Howell, msd atomic and fitech. The atomic worked best so far. Still fiddling with the fitech I really think I’m too old school. I like carbs way better. I can re-jet and retune on the side of the road. Diagnosis a problem with a vacuum gauge and pick up parts for it at any parts store. Chose your poison. I don’t think there’s much difference between the new sniper, fitech or msd.


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hucklburry rev2

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Stock spec rebuild and all, I'd stick with the explorer EFI, being newer than the mustang EFI, should be supported by Ford longer, better parts available, etc. Doesn't sound like you need a lot of tuning options.

If I go FiTech, it will be on a 250 six that to do any other way would be more complicated than I want, I think.
 

SSDDBRONCO

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Based on those three i would choose Holley. I dont have the Sniper but i do have the Terminator. Customer support agents are really knowledgeable and willing to help solve your problems. Holley even has a forum for the EFI systems and that's where i got most of my help to solve any issues i had.

As for Fitech i have no first hand experience and for the Atomic i was working at a shop that installed one and it performed just as good as the Holley system did but IMO the Holley software was more complete and the interface was more user friendly.
Good Luck
 

phred

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Well a it turns out the Fitech will not work with a stock duraspark. Finally got the one in the shop running and it hunts for idle. Called tech support and they said it won't work with duraspark. Doesn't say anything about that in there literature. Looks like its going back in the box unless the owner wants to pay up for a new digital ignition. Oh and tech support was augmentative and arrogant.
 

rguest3

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I have a FiTech 400HP version on a Jeep Grand Wagoneer 360 with the Factory Duraspark (Same as Ford) and it works great. The timing control cannot be used with the Duraspark.

The only issue so far i have experienced is the FiTech system is VERY particular to low voltage. Keep your battery fully charged and it's happy.
 

phred

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Not sure what to do with this. Fitech says it won’t work because it’s not getting a good tach single because the duraspark is not a digital system. The keep telling me to do the same things over and over and I keep telling them it’s doing the same hunt for idle no matter what. It’s throwing codes everywhere but they keep changing. I’ve got a loaner hei dizzy I’m gonna drop in for kicks and giggles. I’m really not impressed with fitech or their tech guys. I’ve talked 3 of them and all have been borderline rude.


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DirtDonk

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What's this digital vs non-digital anyway? Are you using the Duraspark distributor as a stand-alone unit in this setup phred? Or are you connecting it through the Duraspark module still?
There's nothing "digital" about any magnetic trigger that I'm aware of. Are they expecting a signal to be processed through some form of ignition control module before it gets to the FiTech computer? And is this regarding the timing control, or the tach-signal that their unit needs whether using timing control or not?
In fact, are you talking about yours being used to control timing at all? Or is this install just controlling fuel and needs a clean tach signal that it's not getting.
When not asked to control timing, their unit does work with a points type ignition, right? Where's the digital tach signal in that scenario!

I mean, the whole reason that the Duraspark "should" work, is that it's the same exact trigger mechanism that's in most of the MSD, many other brands, and even some of the Pertronix distributors!
The very ones they suggest we use.

Be very interested to hear how it works with the HEI phred. At least that trigger is different (or should be?) than the Duraspark and is utilizing a control module inside the distributor.
If it works, maybe that's what it takes then. The trigger signal being "interpreted" so to speak, by a digital module in-between.
But then, isn't an HEI basically a 1-wire distributor? It's only got a 12v power wire and the tach signal port, whereas the Duraspark is actually the 2-wire distributor trigger that they're asking for in their instructions.
If not controlling timing, this won't matter. But if we're talking about timing control, this could be another stumbling block.

Sorry they were being rude. Guess they don't like us questioning their knowledge more than once.

Can't wait to hear of your next set of results.

Paul
 

rguest3

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Agreed. The FiTech just needs a Tach signal. Nothing "Digital" about it. This can be done by connecting to the Coil Negative.

I used the complete Duraspark system and connected the FiTech Blue wire to the Coil Neg. Same as if you were using a Ready-To-Run Distributor. Very clean install with the Duraspark already in place.
 

phred

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Hey Dirt. I don’t understand they Fitech guys at all. They never let me get to the trouble shooting aspect of the install. As soon as they heard it was a ds ignition it was “oh that won’t work!” Well apparently lots of guys have had success running non timing controls systems. I’m not sure where to go from here. I’m not gonna throw more more at this system. No new ignition. I rechecked the wiring this morning. It’s all clean. I’m gonna isolate the tach lead and shield it. Reset the throttle blades back to factory settings and try again. I see if it throws more codes. I rebuilt an edelbrock carb last night for one of my trucks. Upgraded metering rod, lighter springs, bigger jets yada yada yada. Dropped it on the truck pour gas in it and fired up. Pulls hard and clean. Never even touched the mixture screws. Efi should be easier right???🤪


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