1969 Build in Colorado

[kevscj5]

Hello all.

Been a long time (I think since 2008) since I posted here and that was to sell a '77 Bronco I had at the time. Life happens and had to sell it before I could start that build.
Fast forward to summer of '25 and I found a '69 locally which was in about 300 pieces. Work has started on it's rebirth. It's pretty bare now, but has good bones to start with. I've definitely seen much worse.

-It was a guy's project and he had already put some goodies into it. Full size '78 F150 front and rear. Duff Coil Towers. Duff Long Arms. WH Coils and Leaves. 351W. NP435. Came with a half dozen boxes of loose parts.

-Body was removed and is currently in storage at family property about 80 miles away. Top was advertised and sold within a month. Doors are nice. Hood is nice. Grill is a bit buggered up but might keep. Tub is not too bad, I might be able to reuse the quarter panels as the seams don't seem too bad. Front floor boards and rockers are crunchy toast, along with the inner fenders and radiator support. The body will be addressed later on down the road.

Looking forward to the process. I'm fairly active on another Forum dedicated to Jeep CJs. Been a great experience there. The sense of community and lending a hand & insight is what I'm looking for on this site as well. I think I'll like it here too.
Thanks everyone, Kevin

 

[Scoop]

Looks like a good and very solid project. Early '69 with vacuum wipers? (Windshield tie down hoop on the hood gives it away!)

You'll get good feedback on this forum. It's by far the best early Bronco forum.

Where in Colorado are you located?

 

[kevscj5]

Work has begun this November. I chose to start at the front and work my way to the rear.

-No steering components were included or were they gonna work, so I started with a WH power steering kit. Mounted the new box with the 4th bolt hole. Sleeved the inside of that 4th bolt and added some 1/4" reinforcing strap under the nuts on the motor side of the frame.

-Ordered HD Tie-Rod & Drag-Link from a great fabricator in Iowa. Extreme Custom Fabrication. https://extremecustomparts.com/ Very good work at a good price, had the parts in 4 days and free shipping. Will do a Tie-Rod Over conversion, so getting ready to ream the holes in the steering arms and install the bushings/assembly this weekend. Will then figure out how much I'll need to raise the Track-bar mount at the axle housing, so that it's parallel to the Drag-link. Then, I'll work on acquiring a new Track-bar of appropriate length.

-In order to install the new Power Steering Pump, I need to change the Water Pump and Timing Cover with the WH Pump I purchased. Not going with Serpentine. Gotta love the various changes in SB Ford motors over the decades.
So, I wait for parts to do that switch over before installing the new Steering Pump.

 

[kevscj5]

Looks like a good and very solid project. Early '69 with vacuum wipers? (Windshield tie down hoop on the hood gives it away!)

You'll get good feedback on this forum. It's by far the best early Bronco forum.

Where in Colorado are you located?

Thanks Scoop.
I don't remember seeing Vac Wiper parts in the 6 boxes of stuff I put up in the attic. Ha!
But, that makes sense, because my brother's '69 was Vac too. My Dad's '66 Roadster has that loop also.

I'm in Castle Rock and the body is stored at our Boneyard down in Canon City, where I grew up.

Look forward to meeting all the guys & gals here.

 

[toddz69]

A great start! Looks like Extreme Custom Fabrication is Mike Kirkus - great to see he's still around - I've lost track of him over the years.

Todd Z.

 

[kevscj5]

Oh My Gosh! I think I'm gonna be sick! I just looked up my FOR SALE post on here from 2007 where I was trying to sell my '77 Sport.
I can't believe I sold it for under $4,000. WOW!!!

 

[Oldtimer]

I don't remember seeing Vac Wiper parts in the 6 boxes of stuff I put up in the attic.

Looking at your 2nd photo in post #1, windshield frame has three holes for wipers, so PO may have converted to electric at some point.

 

[kevscj5]

-Got the new HD tie rod & drag link painted and flipped on top of the steering arms.
Mocking up a WH track bar riser bracket to see if it’ll result in parallel drag link & track bar. Think it’ll work, but a bit concerned about when front springs are at full stuff, it looks like the track bar will be mighty close to the oil pan.

-Might have to put a bend in the track bar to clear the oil pan when at full stuff. Probably shave the top 1” or so off the riser bracket too so it doesn’t hit the frame when at full stuff.

-New timing chain cover & FlowKooler water pump installed. All new sstl bolts (15ea in 6 different lengths) for the reassembly took a while to gather up.
Had to do this work to accommodate the upcoming power steering pump installation.

-Wire brushed a bit to decipher the BOM # on the front D44. Was curious about it and turns out it’s a ‘77.

 

[Apogee]

Nice work on what looks like a great project. I'm finishing up my F150 full-width axle swap on my '77, and I appreciate the amount of effort and work that goes into building the front steering setup from more or less ground up. FWIW, your oil pan to track bar interference issues are valid, so I'd make sure that you mock everything up with the suspension at full-stuff, that way you can account for that and make sure that the drag-link and tie-rod don't interfere with one another on the passenger side when at full lock steering. I made things more difficult for myself by making the track bar and drag-link the same length, ~40.5 inches, changing over to the 4x4x2 box and pushing the front axle forward 1.5 inches, cut & turn on the knuckles, etc, but hopefully it's all worth it in the end.

Will you be adding hydraulic ram-assist? What size tires are you aiming for?

Tobin

 

[kevscj5]

Apogee, thanks for the validation on the possible interference.
You bring up another very good point that I haven't checked yet. My front end has never been "set" in correct position with the new Long Arms. I know the long arms are set too short now, so I better adjust them out before I check for drag link and tie rod interference. It's gonna be tight, I bet, after I push the front axle forward an inch or so.
I'm aiming for 37" tires. Ram-assist hasn't been considered, yet.

 

[Apogee]

Saweet, another one on 37's...I haven't used that particular steering box, but I'd tap the box now for ram-assist (if it isn't) even if that's not in the immediate plans, especially if you're building this for the rock trails. Another possible interference point is the diff cover. I'm running a Ruff Stuff HD 3/8" differential cover, and I had to shave the top part of the ring gear pocket to make room for my Ruff Stuff Ø1.5" TRO tie-rod at full steering lock. I've got mine up on frame stands (Ridgid VF-99 pipe stands) and pulled out the springs, which allows me to cycle the front axle throughout the full range of travel and cycle the steering as well, and it's really helped me catch things I might have otherwise missed.

 

[kevscj5]

I had an opportunity to work a couple hours on the front end this weekend.

-Pulled the coils. First, I adjusted the radius arms' length to get them to proper length and to get the front square to the rear. I used a measurement off my brother's '69 as the spec.

-Lowered the chassis way down to mimic full stuff on the front axle. Then, I used a length of 5/16" threaded rod and some eyes to mock up a track bar. Had to do the bend a few times to get it to where I was happy it would clear the oil pan and everything else.
I'm thinking that the axle may never compress this much, so maybe I'm over-thinking things. This equals about 6" of compression travel from ride ht. Not sure what the full range of travel will be with my coils.

-Encountered a minor rub/conflict between the tie rod end at the pitman arm and the tie rod itself, only if the axle is pushed up about 6" and the pitman arm is straight back.
I'm contemplating to just grind a bit at the TRE to shave the rear side of it so it clears the tie rod.
Or, I could source a smaller TRE for this location, but not sure about the shank diameter of a smaller one and if it will fit into my drag link. Have to do some research.
Or, I could just leave it alone and see if my trail use ever causes that much axle compression upwards to cause a rub.

 

[Apogee]

I don't know of any smaller bodied TRE's (GM?) for the pitman arm, but you could probably relieve it slightly without any issues, and/or pull the axle rearward a little to make space between the pitman arm TRE and the tie-rod. As for determining your maximum up travel, assuming you're willing to trim the body as much as required to clear the Ø37" tires, my CAGE long arms hit the frame (wedges set at EB width) pretty much at the same time everything else becomes problematic, so that could be considered the max, and then you tweak it for the other concerns bit by bit until everything clears and you feel comfortable with it. That's where I'm at on mine right now, so I'm going to set my shocks and bump stops to allow that much up travel and no more, and then I'm done (if you don't count installing gears/ARB/driveshaft/exhaust/etc).

 

[Speedrdr]

Looks like good bones…which are certainly a plus doing one of these beasts.

 

[kevscj5]

I think a little shaving off the backside of the TRE at the pitman arm is my fix. I might buy another loose one to do the grinding on to examine/assure I don't take too much off.

I wish I woulda paid more attention/taken a measurement at the time, but when I dropped the chassis way down without the coils, the Duff long arms were really close to contacting the bottom of the frame - I could maybe push my fingers into the gap. At that point, the pitman arm TRE had already passed by the tie rod. My radius arm wedges are at F150 width still, but a big part of the Duff long arms sit beneath the frame rails.
I have to sort out the bump stops still, but I think I'm near my max compression. The oil pan clearance is my big focus.

Apogee: You're a bit further along than I am, for sure. I really appreciate the information and insight!

 

[Apogee]

Sure, no problem. Another option in your build could be to go to a flatter, pitman arm so that the tie-rod never passes the pitman arm TRE, especially since you're running tie-rod over the knuckles already, not to mention the F150 knuckles, which are higher than the drum brake EB knuckles, but not quite as high as the 76-77 disc brake knuckles IIRC. I'm running a different steering box and have my own set of issues, but I am running the "flat"-ish pitman arm, so my tie-rod at full stuff is still below that particular TRE, though I'm not sure they would hit in my installation either way. FWIW, my main interference issue was between the drag-link and tie-rod down at the other end where the two connect due to their Ø1.5" diameters and the size of the weld-in bungs. I've gotten it sorted out, but it required me to push the box further forward than I would have preferred, through the radiator support and about half way through the forward body mount. Given that you just started working on the track bar now, you still have the flexibility to change that if you wanted to change the pitman arm, that way you know what you're trying to match. Once you nail down one part of the puzzle, the others seem to fall into place, or at least they seemed to for me.

My 4x4x2 box is on the bench right now getting tapped for hydro-assist and resealed, otherwise I'd offer to send some pics...which I'm happy to do once the box is back together, just let me know.

If you want a flat pitman arm to try out, I have a spare that you can have for the price of shipping, as I ended up getting a package deal with two of the them at some point, I think from someone on here actually. It has about 1" of drop and measures 6.5" from center to center, and it has not yet been machined or modified for the GM TRE bushing.

Tobin

 

[kevscj5]

As far as the additional port in the steering box, I'm thinking about doing that. Please forward some pics when you have it put back together. Thanks!

I think I'll stick with the dropped pitman arm, because it's a key component in my setup now to get the track bar dead-nuts parallel to the drag link.

If there was a slightly shorter pitman arm (-1/8") with a drop, then that might work.

Thanks for the offer on your flat arm.

 

[Apogee]

That's actually a thought...are you running a GM tapered insert in your pitman arm? If so, you could weld up the pitman arm TRE hole and machine it offset towards the box by 1/8". It will technically reduce your steering angle by a small amount, but it would fix the issue with your current arrangement and the drop pitman arm. If your bushing is like mine, you have to weld it anyway so it doesn't pop out of the arm, unlike the knuckle inserts, where they're held in place by the TRE nuts.

Did you have adequate thread engagement on your TRE's through the knuckles with the inserts in place? I used inserts from Ruff Stuff and I didn't, so I had to machine counterbores for the flanges on the inserts to seat down into the knuckles deeper, otherwise I couldn't install cotter pins on the TRE's...I thought about just running all metal, prevailing torque locknuts, but then decided that maybe wouldn't be the best idea, considering it is the steering.

 

[kevscj5]

I only had to ream my new pitman arm to accept the bigger tapered stud on the GM drag link TRE. No bushing insert there. Had to ream the lower hole for the drag link too, in the passenger side TRE casting.
I do have bushing inserts in the knuckle steering arms though, got em through Wild Horses. They worked fine as they don't have a flange to countersink for.
I like the idea of a new hole in the pitman arm, but I think I'll just wait to see if/how much of an issue it is after wheeling.

 

[DirtDonk]

You can always try a shorter Pitman Arm as well.
Not shorter in drop necessarily, because drop is a good thing. But shorter in reach.
It’ll certainly affect the “Steering ratio” or whatever the proper terminology is here, but whether it becomes a negative or just a net positive, I don’t know.
Maybe some mock up would tell you if a shorter Pitman Arm limits you’re turning radius or not.