Front suspension and Dana 30 axle seal

[lbuch40]

Thanks for the confirmation and advice. That is pretty much what I was expecting. Sounds like a big job

And you get to find out if it’s just leaking because the seals are worn out, or the axle shafts are grooved so much that they can’t seal anymore.
Meaning, new seals along with, new axle shafts or Speedi/Redi sleeves.

And, if the kingpin bushings/bearings are worn out, you get to replace those too.
Which are kind of finicky with 30’s sometimes.

But at least you shouldn’t have to re-reset the gear mesh!

My 1 1/2” suspension kit arrived yesterday. The C bushings say they have 4 degree caster built in. I’m sure the ones installed about 5 years ago are standard.

 

[jamesroney]

Thanks for the confirmation and advice. That is pretty much what I was expecting. Sounds like a big job

My 1 1/2” suspension kit arrived yesterday. The C bushings say they have 4 degree caster built in. I’m sure the ones installed about 5 years ago are standard.

It's not a hard job. It's just work.

Keep in mind that your Dana 30 inner axle seals have a metal tube guide (ID# 3248 in the MPC pic) In order to remove the old seal, you might be tempted to drive out the old seal with a long punch from the open end of the tube. Don't do that. Don't hit them, Don't lose them, don't forget them, and don't destroy them.

The Jeep guys will tell you that the new seal comes with an integrated and molded in tube guide. BUT that is not true for the Bronco. So you must save and re-use your tube guides. The last one I did someone smashed up the tube guides and threw them away. They are no longer serviced, and I couldn't find them. Took about 10 minutes for me to guide the shafts back into the carrier. There were a lot of bad words used. I actually stood the housing vertically on end to get the stubs in the seal. Do yourself a favor, and pull the seals out of the tube ends from the pumpkin side.

You might be tempted to try the Dana 30 tube seal from a TJ, or XJ, but they won't fit. I want to say that the old 72-86 CJ Dana 30 seals are 2-1/8. (I just don't remember.)

Best of luck.

 

[DirtDonk]

My 1 1/2” suspension kit arrived yesterday. The C bushings say they have 4 degree caster built in. I’m sure the ones installed about 5 years ago are standard.

It's good that the 4 degree bushings are included nowadays. The old rule of using 2 degree offset bushings for this amount of lift was woefully inadequate on most of the Broncos we've worked on.
As for "standard" bushings, the lowest number available in polyurethane is 2° so the only way to get zero offset is to use original style rubber bushings.
If you have poly fronts, then they still have at least 2 degrees built into them.
Hope you can do a before-and-after reading from some common point on the assembly. I think James has pointed out a good way to get a reasonable driveway caster reading.

Paul

 

[lbuch40]

It's good that the 4 degree bushings are included nowadays. The old rule of using 2 degree offset bushings for this amount of lift was woefully inadequate on most of the Broncos we've worked on.
As for "standard" bushings, the lowest number available in polyurethane is 2° so the only way to get zero offset is to use original style rubber bushings.
If you have poly fronts, then they still have at least 2 degrees built into them.
Hope you can do a before-and-after reading from some common point on the assembly. I think James has pointed out a good way to get a reasonable driveway caster reading.

Paul

That would be great to get a before reading. I stopped by a 1 person alignment shop to ask for a reading. (Actually a young friend starting out on his own). He had never seen anything like this before!!!! So if there is a way to get a garage measurement, that would be great. Or…maybe I need to take it to a different shop?

 

[lbuch40]

It's not a hard job. It's just work.

Keep in mind that your Dana 30 inner axle seals have a metal tube guide (ID# 3248 in the MPC pic) In order to remove the old seal, you might be tempted to drive out the old seal with a long punch from the open end of the tube. Don't do that. Don't hit them, Don't lose them, don't forget them, and don't destroy them.

The Jeep guys will tell you that the new seal comes with an integrated and molded in tube guide. BUT that is not true for the Bronco. So you must save and re-use your tube guides. The last one I did someone smashed up the tube guides and threw them away. They are no longer serviced, and I couldn't find them. Took about 10 minutes for me to guide the shafts back into the carrier. There were a lot of bad words used. I actually stood the housing vertically on end to get the stubs in the seal. Do yourself a favor, and pull the seals out of the tube ends from the pumpkin side.

You might be tempted to try the Dana 30 tube seal from a TJ, or XJ, but they won't fit. I want to say that the old 72-86 CJ Dana 30 seals are 2-1/8. (I just don't remember.)

Best of luck.

Sure appreciate all the advice. Is this job alot easier to accomplish with the axle housing assembly totally removed from the frame? I am fortunate enough to have a hoist, so at least I won’t be laying on the ground for all of it.

 

[jamesroney]

Sure appreciate all the advice. Is this job alot easier to accomplish with the axle housing assembly totally removed from the frame? I am fortunate enough to have a hoist, so at least I won’t be laying on the ground for all of it.

Depends on your desired level of restoration. If you just want to get it back on the road, I would do it in the Bronco.

If you are the type that is going to want to clean it, blast it, Powdercoat it, and detail it…then it’s going to come out.

The problem with working on 60 year old axles is that every seal in it is 60 years old. So where do you stop?

Sorry for the non-reply.

 

[lbuch40]

This is good. Not going for full restoration. I live on a gravel road. Definitely going for mechanically sound and driveability.

 

[DirtDonk]

That would be great to get a before reading. I stopped by a 1 person alignment shop to ask for a reading. (Actually a young friend starting out on his own). He had never seen anything like this before!!!! So if there is a way to get a garage measurement, that would be great. Or…maybe I need to take it to a different shop?

Well, it's not surprising that he's not seen one like it before (or rather, yet) but at some point he's going to need to know what to do if one shows up. Better it's one from a friend than a bitchy customer!
Then again, if the shop specializes in sports cars and such, then yeah, likely he'll never see another solid axle vehicle.
Time to take some of your own measurements maybe.

Paul

 

[lbuch40]

Well, it’s been too bloody hot to start on the suspension replacement, but I did take some time to get a DIY caster measurement with a cheap Harbor Freight angle finder. It shows about 6 degrees sitting on shop floor and wheels turned outward. That surprises me since I am sure when I ordered the bushing set 5 years ago I didn’t specify anything special. I was expecting to find something like 2 - 2 1/2 degrees.

 

[DirtDonk]

Axle sitting on the shop floor? Or the vehicle on jack stands?
It's not a bad thing to take initial measurements, but caster readings won't really have any true meaning until the vehicle is fully assembled and the full weight is on the suspension.
Not unless you had full measurement checks when it was at it's normal ride height before the lift that is.
And the fact that the wheels are splayed out, means that your caster readings are not correct right from the get go most likely.

But yeah, if those are legit measurements, then they're crazy good.
But the wheels being splayed out skews things greatly because the whole relationship between camber, caster and the steering axis inclination (SAI or kingpin angle in old-speak) changes them all greatly, compared to where it would read should the wheels be straight ahead with standard toe-in.
Especially the caster measurements!

So don't celebrate just yet.
And do your best to determine what the old bushings were when you take them out. Look for markings that have not been gouged off, or compare the offset to the new ones that are a known commodity.

Paul

 

[lbuch40]

This measurement was with existing ride, with full weight on the tires. A “before disassembly” baseline measurement, if you will.
I had watched YouTube videos that stated caster measurements for each side should be taken with wheels turned out about 20 degrees.

You are absolutely right that the caster measurement changes dramatically when steering is brought back to center. When wheels are straight ahead the drivers side measured 4 1/2 degrees and passenger side only 1 1/2 degrees. Leading me to believe there’s more going on than meets the eye especially on the passenger side.
Maybe worn king pins and or bushings?

If those “straight ahead “ readings are correct, it seems like it would drive like crap!

Good idea to look for indicators on the existing bushings when I take them out.