How far over is too far over?

[Johnnyb]

Cinder wheeling this weekend and got to a situation that got me wondering. Going up a "shelf" road on a cinder cone and the tires started churning. Next thing I know, the rear has churned to the bad side off the shelf. Nothing was going to get the back up on the road, and backing out would have introduced some serious side angles. I solved the issue by pointing directly down the grade with high enough gears to keep the wheels spinning (not loose control) and went right down.
Question is, how far over is safe? Of course it's all build dependent, but there must be some in-person experiences out there? Mine is 2.5" suspension, 2" body and a heavy rear bumper with a spare mounted fairly high, but a soft-top.

THX,
-JB

 

[1969]

This is very build, terrain, and driver skill dependent in my opinion. I doubt you will get a concrete answer to your question.

 

[Yeller]

@1969 os 100% correct.

Really want to know? Push it till it tips Ive had my buggy on its lid more times than I can count just trying dumb stuff.

really it comes down to experience and a good reference from your butt to the seat foam. I will do things in my bronco and think nothing of it. Then watch a buddy behind me and go wow that’s sketchy, but different builds, different driving styles and different comfort levels. Then there are times the terrain causes what we’ll call weirdness that causes the vehicle to do completely unexpected things. All of that being said, I’ve exceeded 50 degrees on a tilt gauge and felt comfortable, but my bronco is dumb low, it is much wider than it is tall, and it’s not crazy wide in the wide world at 82”, it’s at stock suspension height and 37’s.

 

[gnpenning]

It depends. As all ready mentioned, to many variables. Most people have never come close to tipping while thinking it was over for them.

On a recent trip we had 2 rock crawling novice drivers. Both had driven various terrain, just nothing extreme. The first day going in on the Hole in the Rock trail they were more than a little nervous. It didn't help that 2 rigs ahead of us turned around at the first obstacle because they didn't think they could make it out. I think they made a good decision for them. Both of ours were driving new rigs (SxS) and were in a little disbelief when we were talking about not even coming close to the limits of the SxS. Coming out they were much more at ease knowing they had already gone up and down the same trail. In fact one asked about a particular waterfall, he was shocked and relieved to hear he had already gone up it. The next couple days in Moab was almost a relief for them. In fact the wife took the wheel of her 6G by choice for part of Hell's revenge and did awesome. Some of us don't view it as a difficult trail in basic form. No, we didn't say anything. We took the side trips for Hell's gate, the Wash tub and the devils hot tub.broke a rear drive line in the devils hot tub. Had to skip the escalator because of time.

They did question a line I took on Poison spider the next day and questioned how it felt to have a tire that far in the air. The vehicle was planted and felt solid.

In the end, it comes down to seat time and knowing what the vehicle is capable of. Gradually is a safe way to learn, you don't want to start on pritchett canyon . Or you have a beater and want to put it on it's side . If you are nervous don't push it and let your passengers walk. A good spotter is worth it, sadly everyone thinks they are a good spotter. Trust the good ones, follow exactly what they say .

Keep going and having fun, you get to decide what level YOU feel comfortable. NEVER let someone push you into something you don't want to do.

You can buy aftermarket front and rear cameras pretty cheap, sub $200.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Way too many variables. But generally a lot more than you think.
I remember making a U-turn on a boat ramp once. The passenger went into a panic thinking they were going to roll over. I was pretty much laughing. It was in a truck, but bone stock.
A 30° lean (1:2 slope) will feel very leaned over to most people and should generally be safe for most rigs. Generally, not always. A slide with a trip at the bottom would probably be a bad thing.
Landcruisers from 20 years ago had an optional pitch/roll gauge on the dash. I could cruise Moab and hit the stop pins internal to the gauge without issue and keep going even more.

It is rather amazing how far over stuff can lean and still not fall over. But add some dynamics to it, a little suspension bounce, a little slide and a stop, or just flat out grip in a turn and things can get sideways really fast. Several times I could get the Bronco to keel over, lift a tire, on a flat road. The right steering input, throttle into a turn, I had the inside front tire in the air going through an intersection or making a U-turn. Nothing stopping it from going further if I gassed it more. I managed to do a full bicycle in a stock BroncoII back in college when we reaized nobody knew where we were going but someone knew that the mustang in front was going to the right place. Follow that mustang had both inside tires completely in the air turning onto a highway.

I feel I have been closer to rolling on flat ground more times than I have been running crazy angles off-road.

 

[stout22]

This is almost too far

 

[Yeller]

^^^^^^yup I was half way in position to put it back on its wheels when it settled down.

 

[ntsqd]

If you can't put in reverse and drive it back onto it's wheels, then that was too far. First time that I saw that done was on The Back Door. 5.0 powered CJ7 did it, it was mind-boggling to watch as it had never occurred to me that such a thing was possible.

Strangely enough, this works with RC crawlers too.

 

[DirtDonk]

I think a lot of otherwise potential saves were avoided because people didn’t want to continue scratching or denting the sheet metal.
Once you’re over, most of the time you’re hoping that the damage was minimal to begin with, and that enough people pushing it back onto its tires, won’t alter that outcome too much.
Once you start backing up, you know you’re just dragging it across whatever it’s on.

By the way, is there a right way at the wrong way to do that? Have enough people here experienced that condition and correction?
Do you turn the wheel “upward“ or “downward“ for the win?
Either way, depending upon conditions? Or is there a one size fits all solution?

 

[Yeller]

@DirtDonk its all about experience. Done plenty of reverse saves, it is very hard to explain how to know what to do, but generally straight back is enough and it usually isn’t that fast unless it was completely gone to start with. Front saves tend to be faster lol.