3-speed toploader to 4-speed toploader

[DrDanWWW]

I have an 1983 EIBE 200ci engine (Fairmont) I am thinking of swapping for my 170ci. The '83 has the lower starter. And although I don't have the bell housing, it looks like it takes the Big Bell, the same as used for the 289, 302, 351 V8s. Correct?

Question: What I really want to know is this: does the shifter come through at the same place as the 3 spd? Is the trans mount at the same location on the frame?

I know I need the Big Bell, clutch, and flywheel (how many teeth?). It looks like the output shaft is an inch longer. Do you swap the output shaft, or not if you're using the Bronco trans to Dana 20 adaptor? Currently I have a Hurst 3 spd shifter. I will need a different shifter for the 4 spd. But is the shifter in the same general location as the 3 spd, with similar style of linkage? How drastic do I have to modify the tunnel? Then there's the this thing about drilling out for the larger bearing. What exactly is that?


The Classic Bronco Tech Article on Manual Trans says...

Bell housing:
Standard Ford. The Toploader will bolt up to your existing bell housing on small block (289-302-351) engines. The existing Bronco clutch is also used. But "existing" for what? The 289 V8 clutch?

Modifications needed:
The entire assembly is 1″ longer than a stock 8 cyl Bronco transmission [what is "stock?"], so drive shaft modifications may be necessary depending on the amount of suspension lift you have. The stock Bronco 8 cylinder intermediate housing needs to be machined for the larger Toploader bearing and drilled to accept the shift rail. You’ll also need to cut a hole in the floor for the side shifter. A four speed floor shifter needs to be installed, requiring some floor board cutting.

I am getting excellent help from Bubba22389... but I thought I'd throw this out there to the rest of the forum. "Wisdom's many friends..."

 

[Jdgephar]

Shifter mounts in the same spot as the 3 speed, although an inch further back, since it mounts on the TC case. 4 speed shifter has 3 rods instead of 2, but fits in the same space. Nevermind the crazy bends on my shifter, I'm tall and need some room for my knee.

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[DrDanWWW]

Thanks! Photos help a ton. So the extra inch of output shaft happens between the flywheel and trans. Big Bell must be an inch longer. I don't have the big bell yet - can't see it. Did you do what I'm going to attempt? - to add a 4 spd toploader to a low starter 200? Or are you using the 4 spd behind a V8?

 

[Viperwolf1]

The extra length is in the trans itself. You have one extra gear on each shaft so the whole trans has to get longer. As I recall it's about 3/4".

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[DrDanWWW]

Thanks for the help. I can deal with .75 inches.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Double check those numbers. I am willing to bet they are referencing a V8 3-speed to a toploader 4-speed. Not the I6 3-speed to the 4-speed.

The I6 3-speed is shorter. Pretty sure you need to account for the length difference between the I6 and the V8 then add that ¾" difference on top of that.

I know you mention the low starter bellhousing, which does use the V8 bellhousing. But the I6 pushes that bellhousing further back in the tunnel than the V8 location.

 

[DrDanWWW]

Okay, so does it push it back 3/4 of an inch? Is that what everyone is talking about? Attempting to clarify: I do have an 1980's lower starter 200 engine -- that had an automatic C5 behind it. But I want to put a manual 4spd toploader behind the 200. As you say, it looks like I use a small block V8 bell housing. The bell looks like it might be Ford part C3AA-6394-C. Do y'all agree? Is that the bell I am looking for? And is it the one where I have to drill a couple of holes in it to make it fit on to the 200ci?

 

[Viperwolf1]

My experience was with a V8 and V8 3 speed so you will need to add the 6 cyl trans length difference to that 3/4".

I'm not sure what diameter flywheels can be found for a 200 but I'm thinking probably not 157 tooth or 164 tooth. The bell you mentioned is for 157 tooth and it's for a 5 bolt 289. I thought those late 200's shared only the lower 4 bolt holes which would leave you with only 3.

 

[bigjhoov]

https://www.moderndriveline.com/ford-in-line-6-cylinder-bell-housing-starter-clutch-match-up/

 

[Oldtimer]

I put a 4speed manual tranny in my 68 V8 Bronco.

You need a new main shaft for the 4sp (Advanced Adapters).

The 4 speed is 1" longer than 3 speed.
The crossmember mounts (on frame) need the slotted hole lengthened to accommodate.
I also took a 3rd mount, cut it in half, and welded to original mounts, to support crossmember. See below photos.



The adapter housing between bell housing to D20 needs modifications.
It needs counter bore enlarged to fit larger input bearing in 4 speed, and snap ring on bearing. You need to add a clearance hole for the reverse shift rail that protrudes from transmission. I did not like the bushing provided in Advanced Adapter kit. I drilled a 3/4" hole and pressed in a shift rail cap from a D20 transfer case.





NOTE: V8 adapter housing is longer in length than the straight 6 adapter.
The Advanced Adapters transmission main shaft is the proper length to mate with spud shaft in V8 adapter housing. See attached photo with Advanced Adapters instructions for using with straight 6.



The rear drive shaft worked with no issues. The front drive shaft needed replacing, so I had one made to fit. I think the original would have been to short, but that was 18 years ago, and I don't remember.

Below is a picture of the hole I needed in tunnel to clear Duff 4 speed shifter.

 

[DrDanWWW]

Good info. Thanks. It doesn't appear that Advance Adapters carries this shaft anymore. I didn't see any references to 4-speed toploader parts. Tom's Bronco Parts has a kit - I don't know if it is correct or not. Still, the modifications are needed.

For me, at this moment I just need to find the correct 4spd toploader to put behind my C5AA-6394-B bell. Then the short shaft to Dana 20.