351W install - interesting discoveries.

[bsaunder]

Well, this weekend I finally put the transmission and transfer case back into the Bronco with a lot of help from friends. In doing so, I found a few interesting things out.

- The HD engine mounts I bought (the rubber is not just glued on it is also riveted on) from a suggestion on here or one of the mailing lists, are actually ~1/4" thicker than the stock mounts. This makes the engine sit higher in the frame wedges and thereby ~3/4" higher than stock.
- My '86 351w block has the mounting surface for the engine mounts ~1/4" lower (towards the mounting surface of the oil pan) than my 302 had them; again raising the engine up from stock height.
- Fabricated valve covers are much larger than they initially look compared to the stock valve covers.

Combine all the findings above and you have an engine that doesn't quite fit in the engine compartment (at least with the driver's valve cover on) if the tranny/transfercase cross member is bolted into the frame in the stock location. With the engine sitting higher and the tranny/transfercase at the stock height, this also makes the engine sit at quite a noticeable angle in the engine compartment.

Since I have a 2" body lift, my solution was fairly easy - build a lift for the tranny/t-case cross member to bring the engine more flat in the engine compartment and give clearance for the valve covers. In my case, this resulted in a 1.5" lift for the tranny/t-case cross member. This is a good and bad end result though - I just took out 1" of my suspension lift to get a lower center of gravity, so I have effectively nullified the lowering of my CG by the resulting lift of the engine - tranny - t-case combo. But on the bright side, the t-case is tucked up nicer now and building a skid plate that doesn't hang down too far will be easier too ;D

So has anyone else has similar "fun" when swapping in a 351w, or am I the lucky one?

 

[probaja]

Along with bsaunder's question, has anyone tried installing the engine/transfer/trans (c4 in this install) all bolted together at once. Im getting ready to re-install everything and wondering if I should mount the trans and engine seperatly, or bolted together.

Any thoughts/suggestions here?

 

[ken75ranger]

Along with bsaunder's question, has anyone tried installing the engine/transfer/trans (c4 in this install) all bolted together at once. Im getting ready to re-install everything and wondering if I should mount the trans and engine seperatly, or bolted together.

Any thoughts/suggestions here?

I'd do the engine and tranny together. Not sure about the transfer case too. I'd have to see it done first.

 

[mustangmarty]

I did the engine and tranny separate. What a pain in my @$$! We video taped the the actual "mating sequence" of the block and bell housing because we knew we would NEVER see that happen again inside the rig. If I ever do it again, they're going in together as one unit.

 

[70_Steve]

So has anyone else has similar "fun" when swapping in a 351w, or am I the lucky one?

Well, my swap was fun, too, but I don't think I ran into your problems. I have what is supposed to be an '86 351 block also. The engine does tilt back a bit, but the carb pad on the manifold was pretty much level. To me, it looks like it's where it's supposed to be! My replacement motor mounts have a big safety rivet through the two halves. Didn't notice a difference in dimention between the old ones and the new ones.

You've got me wondering now. Still have the old 302 on the engine stand, and I saved one of the old motor mounts. I'll have to do some measuring when I get home.

 

[boatbldr]

Ben,

That's all good information to know going into it. Some people think you can just swap an engine,but there is always some fabbing to do. I was wondering if earlier 351's would have different (higher) mounting points?? Possibly making for less of a tip-up of the engine. Sounds like you've got all the hard work done though, hope you can fit some headers in there somewhere around the steering!!!

 

[Broncobowsher]

Out of courisaty, what was the deminsion of the pan rail to the engine mount bosses? I am now considering having the mounts milled down on my block to lower the engine slightly. I don't know what mine is, but I plan to check the next time I have the engine out. I guess I should also check the oil pan to crossmember clearance before I start as well.

 

[wildbill]

;D ;D ;D I have put a few 351W in to the bronco's and its just about a bolt in if they have single ex. then you need to make a mod to that. Other wise it will bolt in ,on sticks I leave the bellhouseing on the trans makes it go easy. The hard part is getting the motormount bolt in the rest is a cake walk. With my son helping we can do a swap on a sat. out and in and running.( the motor all assembled.) good luck %) %) %) Bill %)

 

[S/C-HD2002]

When I swapped my '69 351w in I didn't have any problems (that I remember) with motor mounts or where it sat in the frame. I pulled the 302 and dropped the 351w in with the tranny sitting in the same spot.

The only things I had to change was the header/ clutch linkage clearance, redo the mounting flanges for my exhaust, and relocate my the p/s and alt. using the bolt on relocation brackets.

I guess the only real problem that I had was I used a rear sump pan. It fits fine now after the front diff did it own custom clearance job. %)

Congrats on getting the 351w in too! ;D

 

[vap13]

Yes, it is possible to install the engine, trans and transfer case in one unit,BUT you have to take a few extra steps and precautions . To me it was well worth the effort to make sure everything worked bolted together and not having to bolt the transfer up later. First make sure you're engine lift is up to the task, you will need to extend it as much as possible but make sure you are well within its limits. I only extended it to the second position. The real problem is you have to angle the assembly quite a bit to make it fit in the opening and you still won't be high enough. I had to take the wheels off and lower the front end to get the clearance on the front and once started in I had to jack it back up and put the wheels back so the transfer case would clear the ground. Its tight and a lot of jocking up and down but to me it was worth it, my wife helped me with the install. I installed a 351 W, AOD with adapter and transfer case. Just make sure you don't lift from just one point as I had safety chains at different points. If you're interested I will post some pictures as soon as possible. I just finished the install and still have much to do.
Paul

 

[77pony]

When I swapped in my first 351W (out of a '69 Cougar), I had to grind a notch in the brake booster bracket to clear the driver's side valve cover. I must have had a weak motor mount because the bracket modified the valve cover a little bit more eventually. The engine definitely sits higher. I had to lift the body off the frame to get the headers in. The proportioning valve is awfully close to the header on that side. Fuel and brake lines had to be moved. Alternator went back on okay but I had to modify the steering pump bracket. The kick down rod came out during that swap, but I can't remember exactly why. I discovered a throttle linkage bind in the firewall after a white-knuckle ride down an alley and through an intersection at WOT. It must be my clean living that kept that intersection clear until I got through it. I broke the first band in my C4 within a couple weeks of swapping in that engine, so a tranny rebuild was another mod I hadn't counted on.

I've done both my 351W installs with the tranny in the rig. -al

 

[S/C-HD2002]

I was under the impression that the 351w (at least the early 351w) bolts up to the motor mounts in the same location. I thought the extra height came from the 1.3 odd inches of increased deck height.

I didn't mention that I have a 2 inch body lift. That must help with some of the clearance problems that 77Pony mentioned (unless he has a 2 inch body lift too, then I don't know what the hell )

 

[probaja]

VAP..... post some pics when you can, it will answer a lot of questions most of us have..........thanks!

 

[eBronc]

I can make it fit...

I just installed my 351W and ZF/D20 combo last week. The 351W is an '85 vintage, and with the 2" body lift, it fits perfectly. I used an '89 Lincoln power steering pump and bracket as part of the serpentine conversion, and the pulley clears the F150 box on the frame by about 1/4".

http://home.austin.rr.com/broncenstein/351W in.jpg

The ZF is a much taller trans than the stock 3 speed, but it tucks up under the body (2" lift) and in the frame rails very nicely. I clocked the D20 up a few degrees, also, so now everything sits above the bottom of the frame rails.

http://home.austin.rr.com/broncenstein/ZF installed 006.jpg

http://home.austin.rr.com/broncenstein/Transfer case low point.jpg

I lowered the 351W by itself, then rolled the ZF/D20 combo underneath and lifted it into place with a floor jack. It balanced on the rear "hump" of the trans and went into place with no problems (once I cut the tunnel to clear the shifter tower.)

http://home.austin.rr.com/broncenstein/Shifter pics 002.jpg

 

[bsaunder]

I was under the impression that the 351w (at least the early 351w) bolts up to the motor mounts in the same location. I thought the extra height came from the 1.3 odd inches of increased deck height.

I didn't mention that I have a 2 inch body lift. That must help with some of the clearance problems that 77Pony mentioned (unless he has a 2 inch body lift too, then I don't know what the hell )

As far as I knew all the windsor motors had the same mounting height too (302s and 351Ws). Not sure if I got an odd ball or not. After looking as many Bronco's, I'm not convinced that they all have the motor mounts on the frame in the same place either. From Bronco to Bronco I have seen almost a 1/2" variation of where the frame mounts have the engine sit in realtion to the bottom of the frame rail.

 

[vap13]

I'll try to get some pics posted tonight. My 351W came out of a 85 Bronco so I was able to use the same oil pan and I used stock 302 motor mounts. Went in fairly easy with the exception of the lining of the studs in the motor mounts with the frame supports. Cleared power brake system but not much clearance to drivers side firewall. So far biggest headache was right side header install and now trying to line up pully's using the 351 damper.

 

[vap13]

Engine combo install

Finally here are some pics I promised some of you of installing the entire assembly at one time. My earlier reply gives some of the details.

 

[vap13]

OK, lets try this again.

 

[vap13]

Lift from different points

 

[vap13]

The cable hoist helps control the angle