393 or 408 Stroker Build Sheets

[LowCountryEB]

I finally found a 1995 351W roller motor that I want to stroke to a 393 or 408. I want lots of torque and want to be quick/fast off the line. Not looking for a drag Bronco, but mine is used more for riding around on the streets than offroad at this point. I want to burn the 35's easily. My Bronco is a weekend driver.

I want to build a powerhouse, reliable, somewhat reasonably priced ($3k-$5k) motor. I have read a lot on this site but honestly I don't know much about compressions, ratios, etc... I have an awesome engine builder locally but he mainly builds drag car motors, but he can do anything.

Can you experienced guys post your build sheets and help me select the right parts to build a good solid powerful motor? I've read about Edelbrock Heads, Keith Black pistons, etc...and don't buy this or that, etc....from posts going back 3-4 years. I know with technology better parts are availalbe, but not sure how to put this puzzle together. And not sure if I should go 393 or 408. Again, I have the 351W block sitting in my garage with nothing but the stock crank.

Here is a list my builder put together. Note the heads down on the bottom right. I believe "RPM" heads are more for drag racing, not torque but I could be wrong.

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[addicted]

I cant really comment on part selection because there are endless options out there but I will say I've heard a lot of people, including the owner of Coast High Performance, which specializes in strokers, that the 408 motor is better than the 393. I dont remeber the specifics but something about it being a "square" motor with the bore closely matching the stroke or something like that. But in any case I would do a search on stroker motors and maybe call a few shops. Like CHP and DSS. They can tell you which parts work best with strokers depending on what you plan to use the motor for. Oh, and if you really want a stroker then the crank you have isnt going to work.

 

[bad 68]

Jeg's use to list a small block Ford around 427CID if I remember right. They started with a New block capable of being bored and stroked big. Torque numbers were big. Complete crate motors. Might want to check thier sight.

 

[addicted]

I think that might blow his 3-5K budget by just a lil ;D But there are a few relatively cheap stroker kits out there. But the cheaper they are, usually the less rpms they are rated for. Especially using a cast crank

 

[LowCountryEB]

I think I should be able to build a nice one for $5k right? What about build sheets? Parts?

 

[JWMcCrary]

PM me your email address and I will send you the spreadsheet where I tracked my 393 build. Not that it makes any notable difference but mine was bored .040 which actually calculates 395. I have about 6K in mine but that includes Ron Davis Radiator, extreme motor mounts, headers, etc. I have all the part numbers listed, who the vendor was, and the prices at the time (2005).

Good luck with your build.

 

[addicted]

Theres also some great books out there to check out. I think one is called Big Inch Ford Small Blocks. Pretty sure its published by SA Designs and sold at Barnes and other book stores. It lists all the different stroker companies and different ways to buils strokers. From mild to full on racing. It has a bunch of great info and tech in there.

 

[broncnaz]

Heads will be one of the most important items you get for that engine besides the cam. I'd try to keep compression under 10-1. The Edelbrock RPM heads would be fine on a stroker. really any head other than stock will do but I'd lean more towards aluminum and the 2.02/1.60 valves. Maybe step the cam up slightly as well your builder listed a standard hydraulic flat tappet cam. The stock 351W roller cam is actually pretty good but you could go larger with the stroker motor I'd look at something like the comp cams270 HR.
Also take the GM starter off your build sheet and the valve job.

As with any engine or setup proper axle gearing for the tire size will be needed to realize full power of the engine If the gearing is wrong then the engine will feel doggy.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Why do they want $100 to turn your brand new crank?
Parts don't show a new crank
I can't cross reference the piston to see what it is
Why is there a $54.78 GM starter?
The cam part number is for a GM cam, looks like small block chevy with flat tappet.

To me this looks like a build sheet for a stock chevy short block, not a stroker. Where is the stroker kit? Where is the hydraulic roller cam that you got a '95 block for? This is a generic price sheet, not your price sheet.

As far as the prices go, they look reasonable. I can't speek of the quality or quantity. Yes, I did say quantity. I know of some machine shops that if you don't stop them they will remachine everything. They are trying to make profit and pay for all the fancy new machine tools they have. An example is line honing/boring the mains. If the mains are not in line then the block is probably a little warped, the cam won't be in line either. I asked for the mains to be checked after cleaning and if they are bad stop work and I will bring them a new block. Blocks are not that rare that I can't fine a replacment. Well the block was fine so I skipped that expense. But some shops want to do it to everything regardless if it needs it or not. Why skip it? For one it moves the crank just a hair deeper into the block, now the crank is a hair closer to the cam, now your timing chain is a hair looser.

 

[needabronco]

That build sheet has a lot of charges for parts that aren't needed or required. You don't need a new GM starter, oil pump screen, your brand new crank doesn't need to be turned, nor do your brand new rods, I'm fairly certain Fords don't need a cam locking plate either, and you don't need 2 cans of spray paint to paint a block! If that's your builders 'standard' build sheet, I'd look for another machine shop!

What I do know about the 408's is that the build kit is around $1K for the crank, rods, and pistons. The assembly still needs to be balanced, and the block 'may' need to be clearance'd for the longer stroke/rods. Other than that it's a standard build, bore the block, check the mains deck for square, hang the pistons on the rods and fit the rings. Nothing special.

I've also looked into the 427 stroker and have read about too many issues of reliability versus cost... The 408 is a much more reliable stroker.

 

[Bronco_69]

with a 408 you will have more torque then you need. dont worry about the heads or cam being too "big".

I would go no smaller then AFR 185 heads and would prefer afr 205 heads. use camshaft innovations for a cam that will idle smooth as silk and still boil the tires.

headers will be a issue. you will want 1 3/4 at least and really need some 1 7/8th headers.

you may also need fuel system up grades.

i dont see you getting this done for less them 5k and more like 8k to do it right.

parts list:
carb
intake
pushrods
rocker arms
correct valve springs for the cam
cam
heads
rotating assembley
oil pump
arp oil pump shaft
arp main studs
arp head studs
gaskets
machine work
distributor
plugs
wires
ignition system
headers
clutch or converter (stock wont hold it), then drive shafts and axels

 

[Explorer]

mavereq just built and posted the dyno results on his 408 a couple weeks ago. I'm sure he'll share his spec's with you.

 

[barronj]

You can remove these items:

Valve job $150 (get new heads)
resizing rods for new bolts $75 (see #4)
pistons $385 (new pistons will come with your stroker kit)
rod bolts $54 (your new rods will have good hardware)

For a savings of $650

The 408 kits will start at $1000, and you can go up from there. I would absolutely be comfortable running a cast SCAT crank, I-beam rods, and whatever piston compression ratio you're working with. You're not going to be hanging out @ 5000-6500 RPM all day long, and if you were, you'd be all over the road on 35's.

Budget $350 for gaskets, fasteners & fluids

I think you can do it for $5K if you don't go hog wild on the stroker kit, but then you have to budget for an exhaust to move that air, driveline to support it, etc.

TDC_worm just built a 427 & is selling it for $3K, brand new. That was a few month's back though, so it might've already sold.

 

[Explorer]

Here is mavereq's thread: http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163970

 

[Bronco_69]

Here is mavereq's thread: http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163970

i like that!!

 

[LowCountryEB]

Anymore information?

 

[Madgyver]

Have you looked at CHI heads (click here)?

That's where I'd put the money, If I had it.

For my 393W, It has a 3.85 stroke crank, stock 351W truck rods, custom valve relief cut forged pistons, roller cam, Aussie heads with water ports blocked off, B&A intake debating on the injector bosses and massflo. still on the shelf and enigne stand.