393W or 4BT

[sooner-sig]

So I have a 73 Bronco Ranger package. It has a 3 inch body and 3.5 inch suspension lift. Dana 44 front upgraded with fullsize bronco disc brakes. A 31 spline medium duty 9" rear which is in the process of getting explorer disc on it. Hydro boost is also in the works. I'm leaning towards 35" tires. I want A/C as it gets pretty damn hot in Memphis. So now the dilemma, I'm having trouble deciding on a drive train. I started collecting parts for the 393W, but haven't got to far along so far just the A9L computer and a lightning lower intake manifold. Both of which I could get my money back. The more I read on 4btswaps.com and on here the more I want the 4BT. It's not going to be a daily driver, but will spend more of it's time on road than off. I've got the body off so I have great access to the frame. Help push me one way or another.

 

[Broncobowsher]

The 4BTs I have seen I can say are loud. Not the add a muffler and make it quiet loud but just overall loud. Not much you can do to quiet it down.

Also they tend to shake a lot. 4 cylinder diesel pushing nearly a liter per cylinder. They do tend to be shakers. The torque is a pounding torque. You need stronger then you thought driveline pieces.

Keep in mind the limited RPM of the 4BT, they will not easily rev like a gas engine.

I like the idea of the diesel. The 4BT is a great engine. Just need to know of it's quirks and plan around them.

 

[73stallion]

if it were me, i'd do the 4BT. i'd yank my 302 in favor of a diesel any day! plus diesel is cheaper than gas now, and you'll get 2.5 to 3 times the mileage with a diesel. i remember miley saying he got 27mpg highway with his 4BT, 4.11's, 35's, and an NV4500.

fuel options are another plus. vegetable oil, bio-diesel, i talked to another guy at FFF who was running a 50/50 mix of diesel and used ATF.

 

[Pa PITT]

I going to the 4BT myself ..started it last SEPT and hope it'll be done by NEW Years..but I'm not sure I'd tell anyone else to go this way until mine runs ..Noise and the shaking is what I'm worried about ..
.....Mine is for farm use and farm fuel ..some thing that'll stay cool and 50% to 75% better mileage is what I'm hoping for...

 

[Bronco_69]

i will take that lower intake if you go 4bt

 

[BroncoBoy72]

Shaking can be minimized through timing, isolaters, idle rpm and so on. Do not let people discourage you. I was going to build a 408 and kicked it just due to the reliability, fuel milage, and raw torque these 4bt motors crank out. Good luck!

 

[dantheman222]

I don't see the vibration or shaking as a deal breaker, they are both manageable in our F 150s. I highly recommend you test drive a 1st gen dodge cummins as your 4bt will run and drive very similarly in your Bronco. Also be prepared for the possibility of replacing pistons and rings or some injector pump tuning. Most of the 4bts are VERY high mileage. (our lowest one was something like 350,000 and all 3 of them needed pistons and rings but everything else inside looked brand new) A fleet mechanic tells me it is not unusual for those motors to go half a million miles before rebuilds. The performance upgrades are endless. My hopes are around 200 hp and 400 ft lbs with a turbo upgrade and an intercooler. But we consistently get 25 with F150 chassis, I am hoping for at least that with my bronco I should have it running again after the rebuild in a few weeks and the bronco should be finished next summer, I will let you know.

 

[sooner-sig]

Shaking can be minimized through timing, isolaters, idle rpm and so on. Do not let people discourage you. I was going to build a 408 and kicked it just due to the reliability, fuel milage, and raw torque these 4bt motors crank out. Good luck!

Thanks guys..What are you doing for drive shafts?

 

[BroncoBoy72]

I am running in the front the dodge factory d-shaft off a 96 2500 mainly due to its a direct bolt in for my d60 and np241 transfer case, rear d-shaft is a front shaft out of a 93 f350 with a 1350 cv i believe and bolts directly to my tcase and sterling. I did my own d-shaft mods, pirate has a good article on how to do it.

Jonathan

 

[SpareParts]

I am running in the front the dodge factory d-shaft off a 96 2500 mainly due to its a direct bolt in for my d60 and np241 transfer case, rear d-shaft is a front shaft out of a 93 f350 with a 1350 cv i believe and bolts directly to my tcase and sterling. I did my own d-shaft mods, pirate has a good article on how to do it.

Jonathan

Pirate has a good article on how to do it?? The 1350 CV? Do you have a link? I need to upgrade to them.

David

 

[kb6677]

I will play the windsor card. Nothing against the 4bt-cool combo imo-
For me, the 392/3 combo was a no brainer- easier to get all the parts, put together and the eb already was running a 357 deal. #'s- I have seen some interesting pwr #'s from the 4bt guys and that is cool-remember if you want seat of the pants from off idle with little to no lag, an sefi 392/3 is the ticket. I am at 298ish REAR WHEEL hp on my combo-it is crisp
Down-side-it likes fuel-8-10mpg. The 30lb squirters and my right foot are the major contributors to this.............
Lastly the 392/3 should be easier/quicker to build and get in the eb-inotherwords get to ride quicker...............
Good luck with your choice and keep us posted.

 

[Scrapper_MV]

For me the power and acceleration of the windsor is just too intoxicating. I just drove it to work a few minutes ago and I probably woke up everyone for miles. The roar of those flow masters and the power is just too much fun for me to consider a deisel.

 

[73stallion]

no wonder you woke everybody up mike, its only 5 am!

 

[sooner-sig]

Thanks for the words of wisdom guys. still undecided though. I'm going tolook at a guys rig that has a 4bt in it so I can get a feel for it before I make my final decision.

 

[Socal Tom]

It really depends on your access to tools and how skilled you are. The 351 is a bolt in swap. Nothing to fab, nothing to invent. if for some reason you can't finish it, you can sell the incomplete parts and go back to your old stuff.

The 4bt is not a bolt in. It will require welding modification and a good understanding of what you are doing. If you change your mind in the middle you probably can't go back cause some of the changes are essentially irreversible.

At the end of the day, I'd love a 4bt, but I know that I don't have the time/skill/money to make it happen in a reasonable time.
Tom

 

[ET]

That is so true. It's going to take you a lot of money and a lot of time. I know I wish I'd think this through better. I could be driving the bronco right now.

Eugene

 

[68ford]

id would say go drive a older mechanical engine diesel in something thats not very powerfull and get a real life experience. i work on diesel everyday for a living. i would have one for towing and thats it. but i like driving fast, obviously, look at my truck. you really cant compare a 393/408 to diesel. 400ftlb would be ok but the 200 hp and tiny rpm range just kills it for me. 393/408 will make 400hp and 400lb reliably with a 5000 rpm range not 2000 rpm range and im sure it would be alot funer to drive. it will use more fuel, but servicing diesels is about 2-3 times more money. and if anything goes wrong they get expensive, compare an injector price to a spark plug. injection pump along with lift pump to the cost of a mechanical fuel pump and carb.
not knocking diesel, for trails and uses without speed being wanted, they are probably great. noisy as hell but better on fuel.
probably realistically not even quite 50% better. my bronco is 5200 pounds and i get 12-13 with a very high strung 302. a 4bt would probably not get 24-26 in my truck.

just make sure on such a big decision and get experience. go drive some stuff. last thing you want to do is go to all that trouble and spend all that money and wish you did something else and not enjoy driving it, were talking alot of time and thousands of dollars here on this decision.

 

[BroncoBoy72]

id would say go drive a older mechanical engine diesel in something thats not very powerfull and get a real life experience. i work on diesel everyday for a living. i would have one for towing and thats it. but i like driving fast, obviously, look at my truck. you really cant compare a 393/408 to diesel. 400ftlb would be ok but the 200 hp and tiny rpm range just kills it for me. 393/408 will make 400hp and 400lb reliably with a 5000 rpm range not 2000 rpm range and im sure it would be alot funer to drive. it will use more fuel, but servicing diesels is about 2-3 times more money. and if anything goes wrong they get expensive, compare an injector price to a spark plug. injection pump along with lift pump to the cost of a mechanical fuel pump and carb.
not knocking diesel, for trails and uses without speed being wanted, they are probably great. noisy as hell but better on fuel.
probably realistically not even quite 50% better. my bronco is 5200 pounds and i get 12-13 with a very high strung 302. a 4bt would probably not get 24-26 in my truck.

just make sure on such a big decision and get experience. go drive some stuff. last thing you want to do is go to all that trouble and spend all that money and wish you did something else and not enjoy driving it, were talking alot of time and thousands of dollars here on this decision.

I love it when people see the stock horsepower of a diesel and are automatically turned away.. A 393 will make 400hp and 400lb at what RPM and those ratings can vary as well depending on the internals. The ratings you have stated are true on a stock 4bt engine. 2000 RPMS is right but it is very simple to achieve 3600 RPMS respectively. Diesel engines are extremely detuned from the factory and have a large amount of potential you might be aware this being that you are a diesel mechanic by trade. You say its expensive? Well add up a good stroker kit, good set of aluminum heads, machine work, roller rockers, injection setup or aftermarket carb, maybe an engine block, cam, bearings, labor for assembly, and so on, it adds up quick. How many miles do you get out of a stroker motor? Dont get me wrong I`m not baggin on you just stating the other side. Dont get me wrong I love the sound of a nice built small block but since I did the 4bt swap I am glad I didnt go the 408 route. You are right he should go drive a 4bt bronco..

 

[68ford]

I love it when people see the stock horsepower of a diesel and are automatically turned away.. A 393 will make 400hp and 400lb at what RPM and those ratings can vary as well depending on the internals. The ratings you have stated are true on a stock 4bt engine. 2000 RPMS is right but it is very simple to achieve 3600 RPMS respectively. Diesel engines are extremely detuned from the factory and have a large amount of potential you might be aware this being that you are a diesel mechanic by trade. You say its expensive? Well add up a good stroker kit, good set of aluminum heads, machine work, roller rockers, injection setup or aftermarket carb, maybe an engine block, cam, bearings, labor for assembly, and so on, it adds up quick. How many miles do you get out of a stroker motor? Dont get me wrong I`m not baggin on you just stating the other side. Dont get me wrong I love the sound of a nice built small block but since I did the 4bt swap I am glad I didnt go the 408 route. You are right he should go drive a 4bt bronco..

yep i know about all the potential, see it every week, customer comes in with low power complaint and missing and smoking. situation ends with "but i didnt know adding 200hp with banks kit could hurt my engine and void my warranty"
hahaha guy at my work with an 04 ram, common rail with 2 melted pistons and contaminated oil system, everything is riuned except electronics and water pump and no more warranty. only going to cost him 10,000 from cummins plus labor to install.
i understand the power and what rpms it makes it. even spinning 3600, thats basically 2000rpm band, which might be fine for some people. but people that like to go fast down dirt roads or play in the sand dunes, let alone any type of racing, that will not work. your constantly shifting and running out of rpm.
i invested 3500 in my engine or so, total(builder was inexpensive), now on 4bt, if you need a reman pump and 4 injectors, your half way there. or a turbo theres a grand maybe more if you have a wastegate. it adds up fast.

really my point is not to bash diesels, obviously i choose to work on the everyday, preferably not the small ones. but stating there is a time and place for both and before wasting all the time and money, is to make sure you will like it and it will work for you.

 

[islandigital]

..... noisy as hell but better on fuel.
probably realistically not even quite 50% better. my bronco is 5200 pounds and i get 12-13 with a very high strung 302. a 4bt would probably not get 24-26 in my truck. .....

50% better would be 18-19mpg (50% of 12 is 6)

If you got 24 mpg you would be getting 100% better fuel economy compared to 12mpg now.