4G Alternator wiring into Painless Bronco harness.

[4x4man514]

2, check!
3. these are both red/blue one is labeled nss the other is labeled start signal. i am running a zf5spd which has no nss but i used the wire to tie into a hidden switch for a little extra theft deterrence
check!
check! i believe the efi harness has a purple wire that needs to go to the "i" side of the solenoid
4.check!
5. check!
6. okay so get rid of the 957 (strt signal) and only use the nss switch since i have a hidden toggle switch in place of a nss?

 

[4x4man514]

Sounds like a plan.

Yes.

Yes. Anything that needs constant power could be attached to the battery side of the starter relay. BUT...
It's very easy to run out of room on the single stud. Some have extra long studs to help with this, but then it becomes a bit messy with all the wires. Being hidden like yours will be eliminates this as a visual problem, so you only have to worry about it being long enough.
But this is where that auxiliary power stud I mentioned earlier comes in handy. If you have room in the box you can mount a single stud and attach a power wire to it and then run some other wires from it to their loads.
If it's not a bunch of large loads at the other ends of the wires, then the 10ga Black w/yellow wire we discussed earlier can come in handy. The old wire from the alternator is connected directly to the battery through a rather long circuitous route. But it is direct and can handle a bit of a load.
If you plan to put several power supply wires that feed heavier loads, then feeding the auxiliary power stud with either a larger gauge wire, or at least a shorter run of 10ga right from the relay to the aux stud might be enough.
No one answer fits all scenarios. You have to decide what is good enough now, and what is good enough down the road if you add more stuff and might need to change the original configuration.

So there! Did I give you enough malarkey to keep you busy reading and re-reading for awhile longer?

Paul

and yes, i think you got me enough to get out there and get this rascal hooked up! ill be glad to get done with wires!

thank you so much for the clarifications, i dont know what id do without you guys!

 

[DirtDonk]

6. okay so get rid of the 957 (strt signal) and only use the nss switch since i have a hidden toggle switch in place of a nss?

Not sure yet. One of us has to read the manual unless someone here has done it recently to tell us what both wires do.
If not listed specifically in the manual, you need to TEST/TEST/TEST to verify that one is redundant, or one is both.

By that I mean maybe the one labeled NSS goes from the ignition switch down to the NSS and the other one has another end somewhere that goes to the other wire of the NSS (there has to be two at the transmission for an NSS to work) while the one you see goes to the relay.

I have not read the instructions in awhile and should, but I don't always have the time (and I'm lazy!) so it does not always get done in a timely manner.
But the bottom line is that you only use one of them, and if you want to use it as a starter kill switch you need to have one to the kill switch and the other end to the relay.

Paul

 

[4x4man514]

Ok ill double check. Im pretty sure the manual says to hook both up.

There are a few discrepencies between the one that is downloadable from the wild horses site and the one that actually comes with the harness. I think that is where alot of my confusion comes from.

 

[DirtDonk]

Could very well be.
I actually preferred the original to the rewrite a couple of years ago. Much easier to understand even with the typos and incorrect information in some cases.
Another thing I thought of is perhaps the reason they show those wires at the starter relay as connected to each other is to save space on the power stud.
If you have two or three wires crimped together into one ring terminal, it saves space.
But in my mind that just creates another point of failure that would kill all power.
With two or three separate ring terminals, if one fails the others are still working. Whereas with everything put into one, a failed crimp could conceivably lose everything all at once.

 

[4x4man514]

Looks like you were right.

I called painless and they said to only use the nss wire. The 959 was if you had duraspark. Seems like I remember reading that somewhere now.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[DirtDonk]

That makes sense. Normally it would be on the driver side and connect to the wire on the ignition module that wants to see a start signal.
But that means you can use it for other computer or EFI duties should they become needed.
So if it can be tucked out of the way cleanly and safely, keep it.

 

[4x4man514]

crap . i said 959. 957 is the wire in question. i think i asked them about 959.

 

[JeepGuy]

Just jumping in here so I can find it easily.

 

[4x4man514]

Just jumping in here so I can find it easily.

Thats what I did

 

[71BroncoSport]

I have been running my Explorer sway all summer and i THOUGHT I was always getting 14.4+v's until I recently plugged in a scan gauge. Now it seems that I get 14.4+V's for a little bit (Maybe before the car gets really hot??), then I no longer get a charge from the alternator.

The yellow field wire is 12v hot at the plug when it's unplugged from the alternator. Once I plug it in, the volts in that plug (Sticking a volt meter prong down the plug) drops to 5.0 or less. Something in the alternator is telling it to NOT fire up.

At some point the field decides to no longer magnify.

Brand new alternator. Also, it doesn't pass the screwdriver test, so the pully nut isn't magnetized in the run position.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

 

[71BroncoSport]

So I may have answered my own question.

I installed an Alternator idiot light (With incandescent bulb) and it seems to have fixed the issue.

Has anyone had to do that to get the field to always be excited??

 

[DirtDonk]

Before the idiot light, you did have the Green w/red wire connected to the ignition switch. Correct?

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

I have been running my Explorer sway all summer and i THOUGHT I was always getting 14.4+v's until I recently plugged in a scan gauge. Now it seems that I get 14.4+V's for a little bit (Maybe before the car gets really hot??), then I no longer get a charge from the alternator.

What kind of scan gauge? Full OBD II stuff?
When it does not provide the usual 14.5v or so, is it giving out anything? What does the system voltage drop to?
It's normal to drop some, when the battery is fully charged and the vehicle is not requiring a lot of power to run. So dropping to 13v for a short time would not be anything to worry about.
I don't think the Explorers did this (too "primitive" wouldn't you know!) but modern vehicle's computers actually shut down the alternator to reduce heat. It extends the life of the alternator and lessens the load on the engine, improving fuel economy and maybe even reducing emissions.
But as said, I don't think the Exploder is that smart, so you should always see north of 13v, and probably north of 13.5v at any given time.

The yellow field wire is 12v hot at the plug when it's unplugged from the alternator.

This is normal, because the power is coming directly from the battery. The Yellow w/white stripe is not the traditional "field" wire that we know from our old systems. It's just the "A" wire from the old nomenclature, and is the battery sensing wire.

Once I plug it in, the volts in that plug (Sticking a volt meter prong down the plug) drops to 5.0 or less.

Hmm, never tested that, so don't know what to expect. There are only the two wires, correct?
The Yellow w/white should be battery voltage at all times, and the Green w/red should have 12v or so, only when the key is in the ON and START positions. Never when in ACC.

Something in the alternator is telling it to NOT fire up.

That's the job of the Green w/red "I" or "S" wire.
If it's not seeing a consistent signal from there, the alternator will not fire up.
I have heard of some applications requiring the use of an indicator lamp on that circuit, but I've never personally run into the need.
I like having an indicator light though! Just never needed one for it to work.

At some point the field decides to no longer magnify.
Brand new alternator. Also, it doesn't pass the screwdriver test, so the pully nut isn't magnetized in the run position.

Never used that test either. So don't know how it applies to modern internally regulated alternators.
Is this a regular 4G setup, or a "1-wire" setup?

And was your alternator charging before this?
You ran it for awhile, but did the battery ever go dead? If not, then it's being charged.

Paul

 

[71BroncoSport]

Before the idiot light, you did have the Green w/red wire connected to the ignition switch. Correct?

Paul

It's whatever the Painless has it as. It only has power under ignition, but not sure where the Painless brought it from.

 

[DirtDonk]

Just for the future, did you also wire a "workaround resistor" into the light circuit?
The reason for this is that if the light bulb ever burns out, you will no longer have power being passed to the alternator to turn it on.

The bypass-resistor is there to provide a secondary path for the electricity to follow. The resistor offers slightly more resistance than the light bulb does, making the bulb the "path of least resistance" so that it lights up as a test every time you turn the key to the ON position.

The bottom line though, is that if you ever turn the key to ON and the light does not illuminate, you know that you need to check the circuit, and your volt-meter, right away. Because it's very likely that your alternator will not be charging things.

Paul

 

[71BroncoSport]

What kind of scan gauge? Full OBD II stuff?
When it does not provide the usual 14.5v or so, is it giving out anything? What does the system voltage drop to?
It's normal to drop some, when the battery is fully charged and the vehicle is not requiring a lot of power to run. So dropping to 13v for a short time would not be anything to worry about.
I don't think the Explorers did this (too "primitive" wouldn't you know!) but modern vehicle's computers actually shut down the alternator to reduce heat. It extends the life of the alternator and lessens the load on the engine, improving fuel economy and maybe even reducing emissions.
But as said, I don't think the Exploder is that smart, so you should always see north of 13v, and probably north of 13.5v at any given time.

This is normal, because the power is coming directly from the battery. The Yellow w/white stripe is not the traditional "field" wire that we know from our old systems. It's just the "A" wire from the old nomenclature, and is the battery sensing wire.

Hmm, never tested that, so don't know what to expect. There are only the two wires, correct?
The Yellow w/white should be battery voltage at all times, and the Green w/red should have 12v or so, only when the key is in the ON and START positions. Never when in ACC.

That's the job of the Green w/red "I" or "S" wire.
If it's not seeing a consistent signal from there, the alternator will not fire up.
I have heard of some applications requiring the use of an indicator lamp on that circuit, but I've never personally run into the need.
I like having an indicator light though! Just never needed one for it to work.

Never used that test either. So don't know how it applies to modern internally regulated alternators.
Is this a regular 4G setup, or a "1-wire" setup?

And was your alternator charging before this?
You ran it for awhile, but did the battery ever go dead? If not, then it's being charged.

Paul

I had this old Scan gauge II from my Escape Hybrid days. You can select multiple values, but I have RPM, Volts, Water temp and intake air temp on the display.

(Forum won't let me upload an actual pic, so here is a canned picture)

So I don't know if it's been on and off while driving all summer or if it's a recent thing, but I just recently plugged in this scan gauge to the OBD II port and started watching the volts closely. When I got it running in the spring, I was getting 14+ volts whenever I checked the battery with a multi meter, so I thought I was good. Now with the scan gauge, I'm constantly watching it and it seems like I lose the alternator turn on when the vehicle gets warm. I may have been this way from day 1, but I'm only seeing the problem now that I have this scan gauge.

Yes, I only have the 2 wires in my 99% stock Explorer swap alternator wire. My battery actually went dead twice when I left it in 'RUN' overnight. User error, but it was dead as a door nail. I was also fighting a problem with it running rough. I replaced the MAF right when I realized this voltage issue. Now looking back, I think it was stuttering because the computer might have dropped to low voltage. I was seeing consistent 11.1volts. Although this scan gauge told me "Insufficient air flow" as a history code, but it never technically threw a CIL. At least I don't think it did.

I have a few Fox Body Mustangs and it's important to NOT swap out the alternator idiot light when upgrading everything else to LED's, so this makes sense to me. What threw me off was the fact that the Bronco never had an idiot light (At least I don't think it did).

 

[71BroncoSport]

Just for the future, did you also wire a "workaround resistor" into the light circuit?
The reason for this is that if the light bulb ever burns out, you will no longer have power being passed to the alternator to turn it on.

The bypass-resistor is there to provide a secondary path for the electricity to follow. The resistor offers slightly more resistance than the light bulb does, making the bulb the "path of least resistance" so that it lights up as a test every time you turn the key to the ON position.

The bottom line though, is that if you ever turn the key to ON and the light does not illuminate, you know that you need to check the circuit, and your volt-meter, right away. Because it's very likely that your alternator will not be charging things.

Paul

Interesting.... For now I'm carrying 10 extra bulbs with me

 

[DirtDonk]

That totally works!

 

[DirtDonk]

What threw me off was the fact that the Bronco never had an idiot light (At least I don't think it did).

Nope, you are correct. No early bronco ever came with a charge indicator light.
In fact, I don’t know of any Ford that was equipped with an ammeter that had a light as well.
Wasn’t really required. If you just kept your eye on the ammeter, you knew whether the alternator was working or not.
Same as a voltmeter I presume. If you watch a voltmeter, and it goes below 14 then you know either something is going wrong with the charging system, there’s just too much load for a smaller alternator.