4G Alternator wiring into Painless Bronco harness.

[JeepGuy]

Back to the top with this one. Getting ready to finish this wiring thingy up. Life has been super busy (in a good way) and the Bronco has just been sitting.

 

[DirtDonk]

Good luck! Here’s to hoping everything fires up first try and works perfectly.

 

[73azbronco]

Good luck hope this complex thread helped.

 

[71BroncoSport]

So I need to post a correction. It appears that wiring in an idiot light did NOT fixed my charging problem.

My problem was that I used the 914 alternator field wire as the ignition power for my electric fan controller unit. No more charging issues now that I gave it a different source.

I now have an alternator idiot light that I don't know what to do with ,haha

 

[davisjstone]

Need a sanity check here guys...

Wiring is not my strong suit. Working my way through a new painless harness install along with Explorer serp/4G alternator on a 74. After a review of many CB threads and a call with Painless, this is how I have everything set up.

• Painless recommended to following:
  • Use the painless diagram for the 3g- 4g.
  • Yellow off 4G alternator plug straight to the alternator output.
  • Yellow no number from painless (that was originally connected to voltage regulator) gets capped off (because its hot all the time)
  • Green off alternator plug connects to green/red (914) from the painless harness.

• What I did based on painless instructions, phone support and this thread (see post #8)
  • 6ga (+) from alternator output to one side of painless midi fuse, then from other side of fuse 6ga to battery side hot of starter solenoid terminal. Then another 6ga wire from the battery side on starter solenoid to the battery (+) post.
  • Starter side of Starter Solenoid to the mini torque starter.
  • Painless #916 black from painless goes to midi fuse (same as the alternator output 6ga wire is run). The the other side of midi fuse goes to starter solenoid battery side hot.
  • Painless #915 black/yellow, goes to hot alternator output.
  • Painless #901 black/red is not needed, removed and discard.
  • Cut off Painless Voltage Regulator
    • Painless Orange no number off voltage regulator: Removed and discarded.
    • Painless #914 green/red: Connected with green from 3 wire 4G plug.
    • Painless Yellow: See below.
  • 4G 3 wire plug
    • Yellow (“A”): Connected to the Yellow no number from painless (that was originally connected to voltage regulator). From an earlier post (it was suggest “This is a battery power source for voltage regulator. This will give the alternator a better sense of the amperage demands of the system instead of just connecting to the output stud where it only senses its out output.” This is instead of capping the painless yellow and then running the yellow alt plug to the alternator hot output (which was what painless said to do).
    • White (“S” center position): Not used. Capped off.
    • Green (“I”): Connected to Painless Green/Red from voltage regulator as described above.

Is this correct? I really don't want to burn this thing to the ground .

 

[DirtDonk]

I think you’ve got a few too many things going on there. Most of them sound correct however, so you’re almost good to go.
The green with red does go to green with red.
The yellow, is in fact a better source for the sensing wire so it goes to the yellow with a white stripe on the alternator connector.
Sounds like you’ve got that part dialed.

What’s not correct however, is that if you’re using the six gauge cable from the alternator output to the one end of the midi fuse, you do not need the other wire. Is that the black with yellow I think?
You do not duplicate the application of the charge wire. It’s not necessary, and it’s unnecessary clutter. Not to mention possible confusion, and danger in the future.
The black with yellow stripe wire from the BAT terminal of the alternator is not necessary anymore. That’s one of the other ones that you either cap off safely, or turn into a power source for other accessories or auxiliary fuse panels.

It’s a lot to digest, so I’ll reread it again later or tomorrow. With clearer eyes and brain!
In the meantime, hopefully someone else can confirm or deny your wiring scheme.

 

[davisjstone]

I think you’ve got a few too many things going on there. Most of them sound correct however, so you’re almost good to go.
The green with red does go to green with red.
The yellow, is in fact a better source for the sensing wire so it goes to the yellow with a white stripe on the alternator connector.
Sounds like you’ve got that part dialed.

What’s not correct however, is that if you’re using the six gauge cable from the alternator output to the one end of the midi fuse, you do not need the other wire. Is that the black with yellow I think?
You do not duplicate the application of the charge wire. It’s not necessary, and it’s unnecessary clutter. Not to mention possible confusion, and danger in the future.
The black with yellow stripe wire from the BAT terminal of the alternator is not necessary anymore. That’s one of the other ones that you either cap off safely, or turn into a power source for other accessories or auxiliary fuse panels.

It’s a lot to digest, so I’ll reread it again later or tomorrow. With clearer eyes and brain!
In the meantime, hopefully someone else can confirm or deny your wiring scheme.

Thanks @DirtDonk. I re-read some of the earlier posts. I knew something wasn't right.

Based on the info in pervious posts (#9-12), it sounds like I have a few options for the black/yellow #915 from painless.
1. Connect to the same place as painless #916 black on on Midi fuse, and NOT direct to the alternator output. (same place the hot alternator output 6ga wire is run in the picture.

2. OR use it as an always hot to power something else, say a relay for a fan?
3. OR cap it off.

Head is spinning. Thanks guys.

 

[73azbronco]

I guess I should have used some pictures sorry, it was 2019, who knew phones had cameras.

 

[DirtDonk]

Painless recommended to following:

• Yellow off 4G alternator plug straight to the alternator output.
• Yellow no number from painless (that was originally connected to voltage regulator) gets capped off (because its hot all the time)
• Green off alternator plug connects to green/red (914) from the painless harness.

Painless is simply mimicking what almost everyone else says to do. Connecting the 4G Yellow w/white wire directly to the BAT output of the alternator is just the lazy way of doing it.
It's been proven hundreds of times however, that it does indeed work. It's just not optimum, and not how any of the O.E.'s that I know of (certainly not Ford in the past) do it. And since you're using, and likely extending, the Green w/red wire from the old regulator harness over to the new alternator connector harness, why not just do the same thing with the Yellow wires?

• What I did based on painless instructions, phone support and this thread (see post #8)
  • 6ga (+) from alternator output to one side of painless midi fuse, then from other side of fuse 6ga to battery side hot of starter solenoid terminal. Then another 6ga wire from the battery side on starter solenoid to the battery (+) post.
  • Starter side of Starter Solenoid to the mini torque starter.

No problems here. It's the minimum gauge wire/cable that anyone uses anymore, but for these circuits, it's enough especially with new cables.

• Painless #916 black from painless goes to midi fuse (same as the alternator output 6ga wire is run). The the other side of midi fuse goes to starter solenoid battery side hot.

Not sure where that diagram came from (is it Painless?) but it's not right unless you include another, lower rated fuse.
Did your Painless kit include two Midi-Fuse setups? Or one Midi and one Maxi? Either way, connecting it there without a fuse between it and the rest of the vehicle leaves the whole system relatively unprotected from an alternator failure. I believe... Hopefully others can confirm this.
The #916 Black wire powers the entire rest of the vehicle, mostly through the fuse panel. Most other circuits remain protected by their individual fuses, but the main 10ga #916 is unprotected and can do some serious damage if it's overloaded.

So is there a fuse? I'll read on...

Paul

 

[DirtDonk]

• • Painless #915 black/yellow, goes to hot alternator output.

No. It goes elsewhere. Whether capping it off, cutting it off, or tapping it for future use is up to you. As you mentioned previously.
But it no longer goes anywhere near the alternator output.

• • Painless #901 black/red is not needed, removed and discard.

A ground is a ground. And it's always a good idea. Yes, the alternator should, in theory at least, fully ground through it's case to the bracket, then to the engine. Did you paint any of those things? What about the mating surfaces? Any rust present?
In other words, if it's a decent ground from one item to another, keep it in force.

• • Cut off Painless Voltage Regulator
    • Painless Orange no number off voltage regulator: Removed and discarded.
    • Painless #914 green/red: Connected with green from 3 wire 4G plug.

Yep and yep.

• • Painless Yellow: See below.
  • 4G 3 wire plug
    • Yellow (“A”): Connected to the Yellow no number from painless (that was originally connected to voltage regulator). From an earlier post (it was suggest “This is a battery power source for voltage regulator. This will give the alternator a better sense of the amperage demands of the system instead of just connecting to the output stud where it only senses its out output.” This is instead of capping the painless yellow and then running the yellow alt plug to the alternator hot output (which was what painless said to do).

Yes. I knew you had done this, but since your earlier post seemed to contradict this, I added this info into the mix above.

• • White (“S” center position): Not used. Capped off.
  • Green (“I”): Connected to Painless Green/Red from voltage regulator as described above.

Yep and yeppers.

Paul

 

[davisjstone]

Painless is simply mimicking what almost everyone else says to do. Connecting the 4G Yellow w/white wire directly to the BAT output of the alternator is just the lazy way of doing it.
It's been proven hundreds of times however, that it does indeed work. It's just not optimum, and not how any of the O.E.'s that I know of (certainly not Ford in the past) do it. And since you're using, and likely extending, the Green w/red wire from the old regulator harness over to the new alternator connector harness, why not just do the same thing with the Yellow wires?


No problems here. It's the minimum gauge wire/cable that anyone uses anymore, but for these circuits, it's enough especially with new cables.


Not sure where that diagram came from (is it Painless?) but it's not right unless you include another, lower rated fuse.
Did your Painless kit include two Midi-Fuse setups? Or one Midi and one Maxi? Either way, connecting it there without a fuse between it and the rest of the vehicle leaves the whole system relatively unprotected from an alternator failure. I believe... Hopefully others can confirm this.
The #916 Black wire powers the entire rest of the vehicle, mostly through the fuse panel. Most other circuits remain protected by their individual fuses, but the main 10ga #916 is unprotected and can do some serious damage if it's overloaded.

So is there a fuse? I'll read on...

Paul

@DirtDonk, first, thanks for the help. This is all new to me, so learning as I go. Sorry to go round and round.

The diagram I posted above is from the painless install manual page 56. This shows connecting the 915 black/yellow with the yellow/wite of the alt plug. which nobody seems to do/recommend. Instead, I have connected the yellow/white off the alt plug with the yellow from the alt regulator. My as you said is to get the 915 black/yellow away from the alt output and either cap, or repurpose for future always hot use.

The painless kit only includes one Midi fuse (150A fuse). I don't have another, although I can get one if needed.

My confusion is obviously related to Painless wires 10 ga #916 Black and 10 ga #915 Black/yellow. If the #916 black does not connect to the Midi fuse per the painless diagram above, were does it go?

This is another diagram from painless page 53 which essentially shows the same thing (as far as I can tell) regarding #916 black.

Here's how an original alternator should be wired per painless, this is the only spot I can find where the black/yellow is shown.

 

[DirtDonk]

Well, it looks like I need to download and read Painless’s latest iteration of their instructions.

That’s a new way of wiring the fuse panel to me.
I guess they feel that the fuses protect all the other stuff, and they are not worried about the feed wire. I would be though!
Perhaps there is protection further up the line?
Seems to me that it leaves that one wire unprotected. It’s not a problem-prone wire, so it would rarely have a problem. And maybe, being 10 gauge, they feel like it would blow the midi fuse before it melts.
I doubt it though, since 175 A is way beyond what it would take to melt to 10 gauge wire. I believe anyway…
And then there’s the case of the alternator itself having a problem. There’s no protection from a short circuit inside the alternator. Unless it’s built-in to the alternator circuitry? Don’t know that either, since I’ve never experienced a failed alternator that way.
So I’m just not sure.

Regarding the method they suggest to connect an older externally regulated alternator, that diagram has nothing to do with original. It’s simply the way they are recommending if you are connecting one.
Theoretically, a high output one though, since this method would also negate the use of the ammeter.

Interesting. Just when I think I’ve seen ‘em all, somebody throws another one in to the mix.

 

[DirtDonk]

Oh, and they still forget how to spell “externally“ in this new version apparently.
I remember a few years ago when I was helping to proofread version 1 for them, I caught that same mistake on one of the pages.
Looks like it escaped the sensors again!

 

[Torkman66]

Just went through all of this except with a 1 wire alternator. Basically the same other than you you have an external voltage regulator. I capped 915 and ran 916 to a 60amp fuse and then on other side of that fuse to the started solenoid. As @DirtDonk says, that will then protect the entire bronco wiring harness from any type of over voltage scenario. As Painless shows it, the maxi fuse could actually blow and the alternator would still be providing high voltage to the harness though 916. I called and asked them about that and they said the fuse box protects that. That makes no sense to me. It would burn 916 and then blow a fuse. Why not just protect 916 before it ever leaves the engine bay?
Here is a picture of what I did. The fuse with clear cover on far left is a 60 amp fuse. (916 goes into it and out of it connects to the starter solenoid.) The Painless red top fuse has the alternator output going into it and then out to the battery pos. If the alternator goes bad the battery is protected. If the battery or the alternator goes bad, harness is protected. FYI, this is totally overkill. Rarely is there ever any problems like the ones we are protecting from. However, it is cheap insurance. I bought the 60 amp fuse that 916 goes into on Amazon for $10.

 

[JeepGuy]

Just went through all of this except with a 1 wire alternator. Basically the same other than you you have an external voltage regulator. I capped 915 and ran 916 to a 60amp fuse and then on other side of that fuse to the started solenoid. As @DirtDonk says, that will then protect the entire bronco wiring harness from any type of over voltage scenario. As Painless shows it, the maxi fuse could actually blow and the alternator would still be providing high voltage to the harness though 916. I called and asked them about that and they said the fuse box protects that. That makes no sense to me. It would burn 916 and then blow a fuse. Why not just protect 916 before it ever leaves the engine bay?
Here is a picture of what I did. The fuse with clear cover on far left is a 60 amp fuse. (916 goes into it and out of it connects to the starter solenoid.) The Painless red top fuse has the alternator output going into it and then out to the battery pos. If the alternator goes bad the battery is protected. If the battery or the alternator goes bad, harness is protected. FYI, this is totally overkill. Rarely is there ever any problems like the ones we are protecting from. However, it is cheap insurance. I bought the 60 amp fuse that 916 goes into on Amazon for $10.
View attachment 934001

That's a great Idea. And there really is nothing to it. Just interrupt the path of the 916 straight out of the harness, to the fuse, then to the starter solenoid if I'm reading it right. I might add this because I am the guy who will have the "normally never occurs" happen.

 

[davisjstone]

Thanks @Torkman66 and @DirtDonk. This is exactly the info I needed. Seems like the painless 2014 instructions say to do it the way you did, the newer 2019 instruction omit the fuse for 916 black which was causing me confusion.

Just so I understand correct, the 60a amp rated fuse is to protect the 916 wire by itself from over voltage? For example, if the midi fuse blows and all the alt power is then sent out to 916, the 60 amp fuse will blow before the 916 10 gauge wire burns up on its way to the fuse box?

For the alternator output, through the painless fuse, and then out to battery, did you go direct to the bat pos or to the battery side of the starter solenoid and then to bat pos? Painless instruction have it run to the battery side of the starter solenoid first and then to bat pos is why I ask. Or does it not matter?

For those of you following along, or who may have this question in the future, pictures always help me.

2014 painless instructions

2019 Painless instructions

 

[DirtDonk]

Don’t be confused by them saying it goes to the battery after the starter relay. What you’re looking at, as the black wire in their diagram to the battery, is simply the positive battery cable.
That’s the direct connection between the starter relays/solenoid and the positive terminal of the battery. No need to add additional wires, because your battery cable is doing that job.

 

[DirtDonk]

So here’s a question. Did the harness even include a maxi fuse and holder?
Or is it just the one midi fuse and holder that is included in the kit?
I’ll have to go check mine out, since it’s still in the box and is probably not much more than a year or two old.

 

[davisjstone]

So here’s a question. Did the harness even include a maxi fuse and holder?
Or is it just the one midi fuse and holder that is included in the kit?
I’ll have to go check mine out, since it’s still in the box and is probably not much more than a year or two old.

My kit only included the red Painless Midi fuse holder, same as the one in Torkman66's picture. It did not include a maxi holder/fuse.

 

[Torkman66]

Just so I understand correct, the 60a amp rated fuse is to protect the 916 wire by itself from over voltage? For example, if the midi fuse blows and all the alt power is then sent out to 916, the 60 amp fuse will blow before the 916 10 gauge wire burns up on its way to the fuse box?

Yes, the 60 amp fuse protects 916 and any fuses in fuse box.

For the alternator output, through the painless fuse, and then out to battery, did you go direct to the bat pos or to the battery side of the starter solenoid and then to bat pos? Painless instruction have it run to the battery side of the starter solenoid first and then to bat pos is why I ask. Or does it not matter?

Doesn't matter. I went from fuse to battery but if you run it to solenoid, it gets to the battery via the battery cable so same diff.

So here’s a question. Did the harness even include a maxi fuse and holder?
Or is it just the one midi fuse and holder that is included in the kit?

My kit also ONLY came with the midi fuse. I purchased a 60 amp on amazon for the 916 wire.