'76 Engine not starting. Just get the WAA WAA sound..

[TexasDude]

Ok. I rebuilt the engine and we had the engine running prior to taking it in for body and paint. We hooked everything up with just the ignition switch wired up. I did this for the mechanic and paint guys to be able to move it around the shop. However, it took the paint guy 4 extra months to complete the paint project. Needles to say, at some point, the bronco would not longer fire up. Basically, all I get is the......."WAAA WAAAA WAAAA" sound. I have fuel to the fuel filter and fresh gas. I emptied the gas tank, cleaned it out, and now have 5 fresh gallons of gas in the reserve tank.

Ok, here is what I have for readings from the battery, starter relay, and coil. I hope you guys can help me out before I call a real mechanic.

All of these readings were with the key in the "ON" position. Also, my coil was extremely hot if that makes a difference after only 20 minutes of trying to fire it up. I'm thinking at some point the paint guys moved the car and left the bronco key in the "ON" position and burned up the coil. I can't prove anything though. The coil doesn't have a ballistic resistor because supposedly it didn't need one. I'm running the original ignition module and distributor if that makes a difference. If I go back to a coil with a ballast resistor, the ballast resistor goes between the wire that goes to the starter relay, correct?

Lastly, as my negative I used the negative of the battery for all these readings. Also, I have a high torque starter if that makes a difference.

Battery
+ -
12.58v

Starter Relay
Right to Left on Starter Relay The parenthesis denotes what wires are connected. Again, it ran when I took it to the paint guy.

X(Goes to + of battery) X (Ignition switch) X(to + coil/starter) X(Starter)
12.61v .01v .01v .23v

Coil

+ -
12.21v 1.35v

Coil Ohms (Across + to - )
.223

Thoughts? Shouldn't my Coil NEGATIVE be in the 6v range?

Thank you sooooo much in advance,

TexasDude

 

[DirtDonk]

Seen that, heard that... Sorry to hear you ran afoul of it too. Lots of going's on at body shops and someone invariably leaves the key on and drains the battery or burns up an ignition component.

In your case you should see 12v at the coil because as you said it's made for that and you do not have a ballast resistor wired in. The resistor is what lowers the voltage. Using regular wire means you get the full voltage at the ignition components.
More likely than the coil to burn out would be the ignition module I would think. Is this factory Ford Dura Spark stuff you're talking about? Or is there a different style of ignition here?

Not sure about the ohms across the coil until we know the part number and brand of coil.

On your ignition switch voltage, what and where are you measuring? That's all at the starter relay? So big cable on left (direct to battery) and then the small one with a Red w/blue wire? Is this factory wiring, or an aftermarket harness? If so, which one?

By "waa waa" you do mean that the starter is spinning, correct? Can you tell if it's spinning the engine? From the sound description, I'd say yes it's cranking the engine. But want to make sure.

I guess an easy way to see if you have spark at the distributor would be to hook a timing light up to any of the wires and watch for the blinking light.
If you don't have a timing light, you can do it by disconnecting one of the wires from a plug, but before you do that let us know what style distributor it is. You did say stock, and guessing it's electronic as in Dura Spark, but wanted to make sure.

Good luck!

Paul

 

[TexasDude]

Yes, everything is stock except the coil. I have the Ford Duraspark and original Ignition module. I have gas in the fuel filter, and the motor is cranking over hence the "WAAA WAAA" sound. I thought I'd add the sound effects because I was told the sound helps a ton to diagnose the problem. I do have a timing light, but no clue how to use it. My Dad is 85 and his memory is totally toast. He has forgotten almost everything when it comes to cars. It's the old blue Craftsman timing light shaped like a rectangle.

The Coil is an Accel Coil Part Number 8140C Super Stack. I hope that helps. Everything else is original. It says it has a primary resistance of 1.4. So, my 1.35 reading is fairly close.

On the starter relay, this is what is connected from left to right. All measurements are from the starter relay using the negative post of the battery as the ground. In other words, the positive from my multi meter was place on the posts of the starter relay at these locations.

Far Left
1. Connects to the + of the battery

2nd from left
2. Wire from the ignition switch.

3rd from Left
3. Wire goes to high torque starter and the + side of distributor

4th from Left aka Furthest on the Right
4. Goes to the starter

Do my readings look ok? If I replace the coil and add a ballast resistor, the ballast resistor goes between the wire that runs to the starter relay, correct? I wast told the coil I added didn't need a ballast resistor.

Again, there are no wires on the bronco other than temporary wires from the ignition switch.

Thank you so much in advance,

TexasDude

 

[B RON CO]

Hi, as mentioned, you should do a simple check for spark coming out of the distributor.
You can get a $10 spark tester at an auto parts store, or just pull a wire out of the distributor cap and hold it near the terminal and watch for spark while a helper cranks the key.
Good luck

 

[Broncobowsher]

Fuel to the carb doesn't mean fuel in the carb.
Pull the air cleaner, look down the top of the carb. hold the choke open if need be (finger, screwdriver). Cycle the throttle. Do you see a squirt of fuel out of the accelerator pump when you cycle the throttle?

And as mentioned above, check if there is a spark.

The coil getting hot is a sign that it is getting power and it is completing the circuit. IF it was burned out it would be cold. Much like a light bulb that works, it gets hot. When the light bulb burns out, it is cold.

Being a '76 it should have a duraspark ignition. Does it still have that?

 

[blubuckaroo]

If the coil is shot because of leaving the switch on, the bellows on the bottom of the coil is usually bulged out.

 

[DirtDonk]

You can post up a pic of your timing light and maybe we can make heads and tails of it to let you know how it works. I've never used that type, but most follow at least a fairly narrow range of hookups.
Basically you need battery positive and negative, then the third connection is either an inductive clamp that simply spreads open and lays over any plug wire (or #1 specifically when you're checking your ignition timing) or uses an in-line/series connection between a plug and it's wire.
Either way, if you get a consistently flashing light while the starter is cranking, you have spark

Did you verify that the ignition control module also has power to it? The coil needs power of course, and you checked that, but there is a 2-wire connector coming out of the module that gets power to one wire from the ignition switch and the other wire gets a signal from the starter relay's "I" post next to the starter cable post. Third wire from the left in your chart.

Which leads to another question about that. Are you sure your wiring is correctly labeled? Seems that the two wires on that circuit are suspect. One of them should not go to the distributor at least as originally wired, but you said some of this wiring is temporary?

Another simple way to test if the coil is still working is to pull the center coil wire out of the distributor and lay it near metal. Then apply 12v (just temporarily while you test) to the positive terminal. Last, with a jumper wire you will touch the negative side to a good ground.
Each time you cycle by touching the wire to ground and then breaking that contact you should get a big hot nasty spark out of the coil wire jumping to the nearby metal.

It's a pretty sure thing that if you get a big loud snapping white spark, your coil is still at least good enough to create a spark. Whether it's still good enough to handle a long term connection is subject to further testing.
You should look up the specs on your particular coil to see if that ohm reading you got is actually close enough to still be good. I would agree with your assumption that it probably is. But it would just be assumption on my part too. We need to know for sure what an acceptable variation is before deciding.

Paul

 

[TexasDude]

Thank you so much for the help. Sorry I didn't include more details. My ignition module and distributor are stock on my '76 302. The coil is an Accel Super stack 12v coil with a 1.4 resistance. When I measured across the + to - side of the coil with the key in the on position, it read 1.35v. I hope I actually red it correctly.

This is what I have done:

There is gas to the carburetor. It was running way too rich, a problem that I realized after the initial break-in of the rebuilt motor. I'll dial in the carb after I get it started. That is another problem for another day.

Using a circa 1970's Montgomery Ward timing light. I connected up the red and black clips to the battery. I used the clamp on the number 1 spark plug wire, and I got no light to blink.

Again, the bronco ran prior to sending it over to paint. The truck cranks over and sounds strong, no spark. I bet the paint guy left the key in the "ON" position, and burnt something up. He let it sit for a month because he was slammed with car dealership back-up jobs. I guess, car dealerships in the area get overwhelmed, and they feed out some jobs.

How would you test the ignition module? Is there an easy way to do it?

Thank you so much in advance,

TexasDude

 

[DirtDonk]

For future reference, some shops can test the modules on their equipment, but sometimes the person working that day doesn't know how to use the equipment.
But the first thing you can check with a module is that it's indeed getting power to the proper wires. Lots of times a no-start issue crops up when the module loses power for one reason or another.

Then you can also at last check resistance on the distributor side connector at the module, and the other end at the distributor.

Of course then there is the typical test mentioned about the trigger pickup reading 400 to 800 ohms.

Good luck with the new setup.

Paul