Another Flowkooler waterpump bites the dust

[lars]

I believe I'm not the first.

For a few months now I've been trying to pretend that the coolant drip on my shop floor under my Bronco wasn't real. But it is, and in the last several days it's gotten so bad that it leaks even when parked. Out the weep hole on the pump. Maybe a quarter cup of fluid onto the floor just sitting parked, over a couple of days. This is an Explorer style pump. It's not the only problem I've had with it. Two gaskets were required to keep the impeller clear of the timing cover. Bought new from Wild Horses in September, 2020 (I'm not blaming WH). Less than 8k miles.

My last pump was an OEM Ford Explorer 5.0 pump sourced from a junkyard, I put over 120,000 leak-free miles on it, bolted to the front of my previous Explorer 5.0 motor. Betting Ford never expected their engine assemblers to use two gaskets to get the pumps to fit.

I understand new OEM pumps are made in China. I have another junkyard pump on the shelf, thinking I'll put that one into service.

 

[73azbronco]

oem ford explorer pump going on 12 years Make sure tension is not to high.

 

[Soylent]

My new Flowkooler leaked through the weep hole also.

 

[nvrstuk]

Yeah, you guys know my stories and posts on Flowkoolers... I brought up the fact years ago that the Flowkooler techs said "just stack the gaskets till the impellor turns" since so many Bronco guys were having problems with the impellor not turning with the single supplied gasket!

Then mine died in about 2 yrs (have to dbl chk) but ... REALLY??? Premium dollars for a "premium" pump that fails in 20k miles? Not a good rep for sure. This has happened to at least a dozen guys I know personally- not FB guys... it's a real QC problem.

My replacement pump is an OE Ford unit... bought it at my local Ford dealer and opened the box to see the white sticker on the box that says... "Made in China"... I kid you not. oh well...

Sorry for the hassle Lars... least you are in your shop not on some adventure somewhere!

 

[DirtDonk]

My replacement pump is an OE Ford unit... bought it at my local Ford dealer and opened the box to see the white sticker on the box that says... "Made in China"... I kid you not. oh well...

Are you sure it’s actually an O.E. part? Not really surprised I suppose, but dealers can source parts outside of the normal channels.
But if it’s in a Ford box, with a Ford number on it, then it must be true.
Say it ain’t so!

Then again, I wonder if there are any USA made pumps anymore anyway.

Sorry you guys are having these problems.
It was bad enough that the two-gasket thing has held sway for so long.
I’ve been kind of willing to go with them for that. Benefit of the doubt so to speak. But if we’re gonna have to add short lifespans and cheap components to the list, I’d just as soon not carry them anymore. And that coming from a long time fanboy.
But I guess that’ll come down to us looking at the data to see just how many people have experienced leakage problems so soon.
That’s a higher-up call…

 

[nvrstuk]

There is no insinuation what-so-ever towards you guys Paul. None.

Back when I seemed to be the first guy that posted this "fitment" issue up years ago I have had roughly 10 + guys contact me about the interference fit and the stacking gaskets for engineering the problem away! At that time that's all I was whining about. lol None of us knew that they'd wear out quickly also so I never followed up on that. I now know 3 guys that have had a lifespan of less than 15K miles. For most of our new Bronco owners who don't drive them daily that's a lifetime. For those like Lars and I who drive at least several times a week that's a couple years maybe.

Maybe Flowmaster has figured that in to their product line like so many others now. Anything for older cars/trucks/builds of any kind have a calculated lifespan of 5K miles which is 10-20+ yrs for "classic" non-driven vehicles... I don't know. Frustrating at best.

PS. My Ford wtrpump came in a Ford box with a Ford part # stamped on it. Yeah, I was pretty dissapointed when I flipped it over, saw the Made in China sticker and took a pic of it.

 

[ntsqd]

snip......

Then again, I wonder if there are any USA made pumps anymore anyway.

AFAIK the Stewart Components water pumps are US made. They do not (yet) have an Explorer listing, but they do make a pump for the Mustang that appears to share the same timing cover with the Explorer. As best as I know all they need to make to have an Explorer pump is the shaft hub.

Or perhaps some enterprising entrepreneur will start making those hubs and putting them on Stewart pumps?

Ford 221-351W Stage 1 - 16183 - Stewart Components

Counter-Clockwise Rotation Drivers Side Inlet

www.stewartcomponents.com

I ran one of their pumps on the Ranchero for nearly a decade and sold the car with that pump still on it. Who knows how long it ran after that. It solved a problem that one of the so-called "Life-time Warranty" pumps that was on the car when I bought it could not.
I bought their pump for Snowball intending to install it on the pending 408, but the OEM pump in the truck died one weekend and I pump the Stewart pump on it. Both vehicles have run cooler overall since installing these pumps.

 

[lars]

AFAIK the Stewart Components water pumps are US made. They do not (yet) have an Explorer listing, but they do make a pump for the Mustang that appears to share the same timing cover with the Explorer. As best as I know all they need to make to have an Explorer pump is the shaft hub.

Or perhaps some enterprising entrepreneur will start making those hubs and putting them on Stewart pumps?

http://[URL]https://www.stewartcomponents.com/product/ford-221-351w-stage-1-16183/

[/URL]

I ran one of their pumps on the Ranchero for nearly a decade and sold the car with that pump still on it. Who knows how long it ran after that. It solved a problem that one of the so-called "Life-time Warranty" pumps that was on the car when I bought it could not.
I bought their pump for Snowball intending to install it on the pending 408, but the OEM pump in the truck died one weekend and I pump the Stewart pump on it. Both vehicles have run cooler overall since installing these pumps.

The linked Stewart pump looks similar to the Explorer pump, but I'm guessing it's not, exactly. The 94-95 SN95 Mustang 5.0's also had a short front dress so it could be for those, but I believe there were enough differences between them and the Explorer stuff to make them non-interchangeable.

 

[DirtDonk]

Be interesting to get one and spec it out though.
Maybe just putting the Explorer timing cover on, with the water pump, will line up with other types of pulleys and brackets for the accessories.
Without getting the explorer brackets, which everyone loves, one might be able to cobble together some workable combination.

 

[1969]

I put a gates explorer timing cover and pump on my engine. Haven’t run it yet but I’ve always had good luck with the Gates brand hope it continues ha!

 

[nvrstuk]

Agreed that the Stewart would definitely be a HUGE step up for us.

I know a guy that would be great on a project like this...

 

[Madgyver]

the weep hole...

 

[ntsqd]

The linked Stewart pump looks similar to the Explorer pump, but I'm guessing it's not, exactly. The 94-95 SN95 Mustang 5.0's also had a short front dress so it could be for those, but I believe there were enough differences between them and the Explorer stuff to make them non-interchangeable.

From close, side by side inspection (but relying on memory as it's been a day or 437) the primary difference is the pulley/fan hub. Can likely run it with Mustang pulley. It wouldn't surprise me if that vintage Mustang has only an electric fan, which might be a deal killer for some (me).
I'm proposing that enough people call Stewart asking for an Explorer pump that they actually make one. If they won't, then there's a niche market for someone. Buy the Stewart Mustang pump and buy or make Explorer hubs to swap for the Mustang hub.

 

[DirtDonk]

There is no insinuation what-so-ever towards you guys Paul. None.

None taken. None at all.
Just making my own feelings felt on the subject.

And I’ve been a fan of Stewart water pumps even before I was one of their sales reps. Got to appreciate them even more during that time.
Just that the Flowkooler brand has been around regular guys like us for a long time and been available perhaps a little better than Stewart. Unless you ran around in more racing oriented circles.
Or perhaps not. Maybe they were there all along, but I was reading the wrong magazines.
I think I saw Flowkooler advertised in popular science and the many off-road magazines, and didn’t get to Stewart until I got to Circle Track magazine.
But I bought my first one before I ever heard of Stewart components, and ran with it because it worked so well for me.

And for all my ragging on one, it’s possible that every manufacturer is going to be stuck with cheap imported seals.
After all, the failures we’re talking about here are just a seal. Nothing about bearings yet, or failures of castings and impellers.

So maybe it’s just a transient problem…

 

[bigmuddy]

So what actually is the wear point for these water pumps? Impeller, seal?

 

[ntsqd]

Bearings and seals are the common failure in all water pumps. Sometimes the bearing go all by themselves. Sometimes the seal fails and washes the lubricant out of the bearings, which fails them. Sometimes the seal fails and it leaks out of the weep hole.

I've read of impellers failing, but I'm having a hard time understanding how the mfg could be so bad as to cause that. That's negligence, not wear.

 

[nvrstuk]

Since it's leaking the seal is not doing its job anymore...however, what is causing that??

Bad sealing surface? Brgs bad allowing shaft deflection thereby wearing out the seal?

Who knows except they should last 130k more miles than they are!

 

[Speedrdr]

Pardon my ignorance here, but……. The only water pump I ever had to replace was on the straight 6 on my previous EB and it had seized up and was screaming, so in my 55 years of driving have never seen a “weeping” weep hole.
If y’all would educate me as to why is there a need for a weep hole it would be appreciated.

Randy

 

[nvrstuk]

The screaming (edit auto correct) from that water pump could be becauae without a weep hole, the water would be getting to the actual bearings and causing them to rust up and therefore fail.

The weep hole is to let you know when the seal has failed, so you know to replace the waterpump.

if you didn't have a weep hole, the water leaking past the seal would just fill up the housing and then it would be under the pressure that the water pump delivers to the block, which could be anywhere from 20-35 psi and then it would probably penetrate the bearing seals, and then when the bearings fail you could have that screaming noise - deja vu, or it would lock up, and then your belt would melt in half as the balancer pulley continues to drive the belt.

 

[nvrstuk]

Here's the link showing how you get more than radiator cap pressure in a block.
It's on my Torture test, that I did between the Explorer Fan clutch and the
Tauras electric fan.

but in that article, it talks about block pressure test for cooling.

Post #22

https://classicbroncos.com/forums/t...r-mech-vrs-tauras-electric-fans.256487/page-2