Another question about VIN

[Jdgephar]

Hi Everyone,

I know there are several discussions about buying Broncos related to what has happened with the VIN already, but I'm not clear on what I'm allowed to do in this situation.

A friend of mine found a Bronco for sale near to me. I found out that the owner used the VIN on this 1970 to register a Bronco that he rebuilt. The one that the owner rebuilt is rebuilt using a brand new frame and body. The one he would like to sell is basically a complete Bronco (frame, body, engine, trans, etc), but now the VIN is registered to his rebuilt Bronco.

Here's what I think the situation is, and please help me with my assumptions.

- The frame is now his, since the VIN is registered to him on his rebuilt Bronco with the new frame. I don't know if I can legally buy it, since the VIN is his.

- I can buy the body and driveline, engine, axles, etc. (but it's still all assembled).

- Is it legal for me to buy the whole thing, as long as I don't try to register the VIN stamped on the frame? I could really use a body in better condition to start from than mine for my '72 project.

- Do I need to return the frame to him once I separate what I want from it?

Any experts out there that know my options? I'm also disappointed that I can't rescue this one as a complete Bronco, it appears way better than what I started with!

Thanks!

 

[Pops68]

Does the VIN on the title match the VIN on the frame????

That is TYPICALLY what matters. Not sure about all states, but from all the reading I have done on here over the past 11 years that SEEMS to be what really counts.

 

[Jdgephar]

Does the VIN on the title match the VIN on the frame????

That is TYPICALLY what matters. Not sure about all states, but from all the reading I have done on here over the past 11 years that SEEMS to be what really counts.

That's the issue. The VIN is his. The VIN on the frame and body I want to buy matches his VIN on a title which is registered to a Bronco with a new frame and new body. Which means that I could never register the frame & body that I'm buying. But, I would like the body for my project. Only question is, what do I have to do with the frame? Give it back to him, scrap it, what? I will not or cannot get a title with this purchase, since the VIN and title basically belongs now to a different one.

 

[Pops68]

Sorry, but I don't follow.....what do you mean the "VIN is his"???

Let me see.......he has a frame/body with a VIN, BUT he used that existing VIN for another Bronco with a NEW frame (NO VIN STAMP??) am I getting you now??

 

[mebco09]

Sounds to me like HE is the one who performed a VIN swap. (Whether or not that was legal)

You are just buying a Bronco with no title. I wouldn't be worried about using any part of that Bronco except the frame on another titled Bronco.

If he is a buddy, or if he cares, I would want to get him the frame back so someone doesn't do a lost title, or bonded title, or ownership in doubt registration in the future on some reincarnated Bronco. Really depends on the State.

If I were the Seller, I wouldn't let the frame go without knowing it was destroyed. Ultimately, its on him if you were to sell or dispose of the frame and it came back into circulation.

 

[Broncobowsher]

Steaming pile.

He owns a title with a VIN on it. Tries selling you a Bronco with no title because the title is on another Bronco.

At best you are buying parts. At worst you are buying a felony. The frame is not usable. Maybe you could get the highway patrol/DMV involved regarding this and get a new assigned VIN. Does hurt value, maybe even ability to insure.

Do research, don't jump on this one without knowing what is really happening. The seller is probably the one in bigger trouble, has a vehicle with no VIN with an assumed VIN from another vehicle. Yes, this is ugly.

 

[frenchy]

I think BroncoB might have hit on why he did it. Insuring a assembled Vehicle could be quite costly! So he use's that vin number and title on a new Body and frame. But he should have junked that frame and sold just the body. I hope he inscribed the vin onto his new frame in the right places. But you could also by a title and glovebox door with the vin on it. might know a guy.........just sayin!!
frenchy
Bronco Heaven

 

[mebco09]

I thought this was a big NO-NO!?!

 

[mebco09]

I hope he inscribed the vin onto his new frame in the right places. But you could also by a title and glovebox door with the vin on it. might know a guy.........just sayin!!
frenchy
Bronco Heaven

I thought this was a big NO-NO!?!

 

[70 sport WA]

I thought this was a big NO-NO!?!

I'm not saying that I'd ever do this, but I might. I've taken an EB to get registered about five or six times (three different Broncos) and the conversation usually goes like this:

OFFICIAL: "I need to see the VIN." (Starts looking around)

ME: "There's a plate here on the glove box door."

OFFICIAL: "There's nothing in the door jam?" (Looks at door jam. Nothing.)

ME: "Only other place is stamped on the frame, if you want to get underneath and look for it."

OFFICIAL: "I'll use the glove box door."

That's exactly how the conversation went about 6 months ago here in New Mexico where I moved. And the same conversation I've had for about 25 years with EBs.

 

[Slowleak]

This has probably been covered in a 100 threads by now....but here we go again.

Vin tampering is a federal crime, and a state crime in every state, including Michigan. A glovebox door tag means nothing when titling a Bronco or proving ownership. It’s a warranty plate...The legal vin is stamped in the frame. Never buy a title and glovebox door and think you are legal, (unless you have the frame that matches).

If you pass a DMV inspection with a warranty plate that matches the title, and a frame that does not, you are just lucky, not legal....

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(pa...eg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-750-415

https://www.justice.gov/archives/jm...removing-motor-vehicle-identification-numbers


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[Jdgephar]

Sorry, but I don't follow.....what do you mean the "VIN is his"???

Let me see.......he has a frame/body with a VIN, BUT he used that existing VIN for another Bronco with a NEW frame (NO VIN STAMP??) am I getting you now??

I think you got it. Seller built a bronco with a brand new, no vin frame. I'm guessing the body is all brand new parts well, but I'm just assuming this. I will refer to this as the "new", or "rebuilt" Bronco.

Seller has a 1970 Bronco, almost all there. This is what is for sale. However, the seller told me that the VIN on this 1970 is what is on his title for the "new" Bronco. Photo is the one for sale.

Right or wrong on what the seller did, I know that I cannot title the 1970 if I buy it. I would approach the sale as buying parts only, and I want nothing to do with the frame and I want to leave it with him. I'm guessing the glove box from the 1970 is on the "new" Bronco as well.

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[70 sport WA]

This has probably been covered in a 100 threads by now....but here we go again.

MORE than 100 threads and comments. I agree. Shouldn't be done, but...

How often have members checked the frame VIN (let alone the glove box VIN plate) against the title when buying?

Maybe you all have, I haven't. (Thinking about it, I should have!) I don't endorse doing anything illegal, only saying that few check to see what's stamped on the frame.

 

[Slowleak]

MORE than 100 threads and comments. I agree. Shouldn't be done, but...

How often have members checked the frame VIN (let alone the glove box VIN plate) against the title when buying?

Maybe you all have, I haven't. (Thinking about it, I should have!) I don't endorse doing anything illegal, only saying that few check to see what's stamped on the frame.

I’m guilty of not checking before buying, but with the number of posts about buying a glovebox door, I will always check in the future. I don’t need that kinda trouble.... I got better things to worry about.