AOD Throttle Valve Adjustment Adventure / Any feedback?

[ksagis]

Figured I'd post my experience with AOD throttle valve adjustment in case it's useful for anybody else downstream. Shout out to various folks like ba123, 399strokerEB, bronco italiano, broncobowser (and anybody I forgot) for various tips and feedback before I finally got around to it in the god-awful Austin heat.

I was following the Ford service instructions I posted in this thread.

1. Installed pressure gauge and *thought* I had warmed engine and tranny up enough (note I didn't drive it but idled and went through gears for a bit). Measured 27 psi with spacer and <5 psi without spacer. Spacer is 0.270" and matches factory tool. Idiot me forgot to look at my tranny temp gauge......
2. Adjusted about 0.160" tighter (should have been 10 psi increase based on factory instructions). Measured 36-37 psi with spacer, but was about 11 psi with the spacer removed.
3. Stopped and thunk for a while, came back to it about 45 minutes later
4. Measured pressure again without changing anything. Measured 32 to 33 psi with spacer and was 4 -5 psi without the spacer (still forgot to look at my tranny temp gauge....)
5. Without the spacer installed, I nudged the TV arm at tranny, it moved slightly, and pressure dropped to 1 or 2 psi (I remembered a post on this by bronco italiano leading me to try this)

My conclusions are that I probably didn't get it fully warmed up resulting in the pressure with and without spacer dropping slightly, and the TV arm wasn't fully returning leading to the idle pressure dropping when I nudged it. Cleaned up for happy hour, will test drive and report back.

Depending on how it drives, I may add a spring to get a better return of the TV arm at the tranny, but tend to think it doesn't matter much if the pressure without spacer exceeds the 5 psi spec'd in the Ford service manual if the arm doesn't fully return (and I don't have a good way to mount a spring with how my TV cable is run). Everything I have read says pressure can only be too low - but that is in reference to when driving, versus the <5 psi in neutral when adjusting things.

If there are any AOD experts around and have an opinion on how critical it is to get the TV arm to fully return and get to <5 psi such that I should add a spring to TV arm, I'd love your opinions

Thanks again to the awesome folks on the forum willing to share their knowledge.

 

[ntsqd]

When I set up the AOD in the '67 Ranchero in about '94 I didn't know anything about testing for pressure or any of that. I looked at what did the factory linkage do in terms of where was the trans lever at idle? Where was the trans lever at WOT? I used the OEM kick-down lever on the Ranchero's throttle linkage with a rigid operating rod in place of the C4's cable. At one point I went to the local Ford dealership and rolled under a 5.0/AOD Mustang that they had in the showroom with a couple scales and a protractor. When a salesperson asked if they could help me I had him push the pedal to WOT while I measured things. I'm going to guess that's not what he had in mind.... LOL
I modified the trans lever (about 100 times) until I got it to repeat the OEM throttle vs. lever relationship and then set the op-rod length for optimal shift feel.
People said that an AOD wouldn't work with a carb. I've no idea what they based that on, but they clearly were wrong.

 

[Broncobowsher]

That reminds me of my neighbor from 20+ years ago. He did a 351/AOD combo. Made a rod linkage with a bellcrank between the carb and the transmission. He spent a lot of time getting the linkage right. Not just idle is idle and WOT is WOT. But the part throttle tuning. 10% throttle ended up needing 15 or 20% TVO. The engine and 4-barrel intake would make more torque at light throttle and the linkage had to be scaled with engine output, which did not follow the throttle input.

That was when I first did my first 4R70W. I could go in and tune all that with a keyboard. The neighbor was smart, he could figure the angles of the bellcrank to get faster/slower travel and still get the same overall travel in the end.

 

[Steve83]

If there are any AOD experts around and have an opinion on how critical it is to get the TV arm to fully return...

I'm not calling myself an AOD expert, but my opinion is "very". And if it doesn't happen with the normal throttle spring(s), TV cable spring(s), and AOD spring(s), I'd find & fix the problem - not band-aid it with another spring.

 

[ntsqd]

Yes, it wasn't just the length of all of the bellcranks, it was also where they started from. I had the patience to do that then.....

 

[ba123]

Figured I'd post my experience with AOD throttle valve adjustment in case it's useful for anybody else downstream. Shout out to various folks like ba123, 399strokerEB, bronco italiano, broncobowser (and anybody I forgot) for various tips and feedback before I finally got around to it in the god-awful Austin heat.

I was following the Ford service instructions I posted in this thread.

1. Installed pressure gauge and *thought* I had warmed engine and tranny up enough (note I didn't drive it but idled and went through gears for a bit). Measured 27 psi with spacer and <5 psi without spacer. Spacer is 0.270" and matches factory tool. Idiot me forgot to look at my tranny temp gauge......
2. Adjusted about 0.160" tighter (should have been 10 psi increase based on factory instructions). Measured 36-37 psi with spacer, but was about 11 psi with the spacer removed.
3. Stopped and thunk for a while, came back to it about 45 minutes later
4. Measured pressure again without changing anything. Measured 32 to 33 psi with spacer and was 4 -5 psi without the spacer (still forgot to look at my tranny temp gauge....)
5. Without the spacer installed, I nudged the TV arm at tranny, it moved slightly, and pressure dropped to 1 or 2 psi (I remembered a post on this by bronco italiano leading me to try this)

My conclusions are that I probably didn't get it fully warmed up resulting in the pressure with and without spacer dropping slightly, and the TV arm wasn't fully returning leading to the idle pressure dropping when I nudged it. Cleaned up for happy hour, will test drive and report back.

Depending on how it drives, I may add a spring to get a better return of the TV arm at the tranny, but tend to think it doesn't matter much if the pressure without spacer exceeds the 5 psi spec'd in the Ford service manual if the arm doesn't fully return (and I don't have a good way to mount a spring with how my TV cable is run). Everything I have read says pressure can only be too low - but that is in reference to when driving, versus the <5 psi in neutral when adjusting things.

If there are any AOD experts around and have an opinion on how critical it is to get the TV arm to fully return and get to <5 psi such that I should add a spring to TV arm, I'd love your opinions

Thanks again to the awesome folks on the forum willing to share their knowledge.

Glad you finally got around to doing it and I totally forgot to mention my spring to you. I had the same return issue and I found a perfect spring at Ace Hardware that clipped on the lever hole and the other end on a Bronco hole. Works great.

And yes, gotta warm that thing up, do the test, take the spacer out with gloves on hot, and do not wait for it to cool. Do your best to do everything when it's warm...I think the specs call for only 80 degrees or warmer so that shouldn't be too difficult. Adjustment can be when hot, but don't overthink it.

I can try to snag a spring pic if you need it.

 

[ksagis]

I'm not calling myself an AOD expert, but my opinion is "very". And if it doesn't happen with the normal throttle spring(s), TV cable spring(s), and AOD spring(s), I'd find & fix the problem - not band-aid it with another spring.

I think two members (ba123 and bronco italiano) added springs for exactly the same issue. I’d wager the factory spring in the cable loses some oomph over time, maybe due to slow fatigue cycling over 30 years.

Sounded like 399strokerEB ran some rather high pressures based on his comments on the linked thread.

 

[ksagis]

Glad you finally got around to doing it and I totally forgot to mention my spring to you. I had the same return issue and I found a perfect spring at Ace Hardware that clipped on the lever hole and the other end on a Bronco hole. Works great.

And yes, gotta warm that thing up, do the test, take the spacer out with gloves on hot, and do not wait for it to cool. Do your best to do everything when it's warm...I think the specs call for only 80 degrees or warmer so that shouldn't be too difficult. Adjustment can be when hot, but don't overthink it.

I can try to snag a spring pic if you need it.

Yes please on a pic of the spring and how you mounted it. I think there are two flavors of TV arms, one high and one low, though maybe thats if aftermarket cable like Lokar is installed. Mine is high TV arm, and is gonna be tight to fit a spring. I’d love something easy for a change.

 

[ba123]

Yes please on a pic of the spring and how you mounted it. I think there are two flavors of TV arms, one high and one low, though maybe thats if aftermarket cable like Lokar is installed. Mine is high TV arm, and is gonna be tight to fit a spring. I’d love something easy for a change.

Is your throttle cable coming from the front or the rear side of the trans?

I think the TV lever just pops off and can go either way...but then again, your cable needs to pull it.

I'm not calling myself an AOD expert, but my opinion is "very". And if it doesn't happen with the normal throttle spring(s), TV cable spring(s), and AOD spring(s), I'd find & fix the problem - not band-aid it with another spring.

You want to “fix the problem” then you’d have to make the tranny stock, in the stock vehicle, with a stock engine, stock cable, stock gas pedal and linkage, and everything about it exactly how it was setup in how it came from the factory.

There is no “fixing” any problem. There is just making these things work for our application after our mods.

 

[ksagis]

Is your throttle cable coming from the front or the rear side of the trans?

I think the TV lever just pops off and can go either way...but then again, your cable needs to pull it.

My cable is coming from front of engine with all factory linkages and hardware. Looks like you might have the Lokar cable and it's great you have that hole at the ready for use. I could maybe hook around the attachment pin and pull backwards.

I'll try to crawl under tranny this week and get some pictures.

Crappy extracted pic from one install manuals that shows my configuration.

Edit: added a picture pulled from youtube video

 

[ba123]

Actually, I was confused.

My shift cable comes from the rear, yes, but my TV cable comes from the front. Should be the exact same. Although you won't have a hole in your arm, you could easily pull that lever off I think and drill a hole or attach another way.

 

[ksagis]

I have a used TV cable off a Foxbody I can fiddle around with, I bet I can change the spring inside the boot too and get the same result. Might actually be pretty easy to do that. Gonna drive it first, likely this weekend before I have time to get that.

 

[ksagis]

@bronco italiano, you had posted about adding a spring - do you still have the factory setup type linkage or swapped to an after market cable?

I’m not keen on hooking a spring around the ball pin as it might put some pressure on the cable socket and pop the cable end off. Wondering if you had any good ideas if you had a factory cable setup.

Maybe best to pull arm and drill a hole.

 

[bronco italiano]

I did the BCB setup

 

[Steve83]

I’d wager the factory spring in the cable loses some oomph over time...

I'd cover that bet.

...to “fix the problem” then you’d have to make the tranny stock, in the stock vehicle, with a stock engine, stock cable, stock gas pedal and linkage, and everything about it exactly how it was setup in how it came from the factory.

That's nonsense. The problem he's describing has nothing to do with the rest of the vehicle, the engine, the gas pedal, nor most other things. It's about the transmission's guts, the TV lever, and the TV cable.

There is no “fixing” any problem.

Yes, every problem with something that once worked right can be fixed.

 

[ba123]

You clearly do not understand.

If an AOD had come stock in a Bronco then you’d be absolutely right.

It didn’t and the builds are not stock.

 

[Quick & Dirty]

I had a '88 Lincoln LSC with the AOD. I didn't like how it shifted (cable may have stretched) so I just pulled the TV tight at WOT eyeballed a bit of slack and test drove it. Gave it a bit more slack so it would shift to OD around 50 mph at normal cruise throttle, but kick out at about 1/2 throttle. Shifted all gears later and firmer, which is what I wanted. Never did a pressure test, just drove it for years without any issue.

I think the issues come when people want soft, smooth shifts but also not burn up the clutch packs. That's the fine line that needs to meet the pressure test specs.

 

[ba123]

That’s a great way to do it and I did it that way one of my times just messing around and it works, and honestly, Ford never did pressure checks either but their systems were all stock and when adjusted the same way they didn’t need them.

If your tv is 100% at 100% throttle, and you have a 1:1 ratio of throttle to tv, then that’s all you really need and can simply adjust from there to suit your style. It really doesn’t matter what the number is, as long as it isn’t low, which if it’s at 100% full tv at full throttle(and again, a 1:1 ratio), it won’t be!

 

[ksagis]

After I set my pressure I did go back and check how much extra slack I had in TV cable when the throttle body lever was at the full throttle position. From eyeballing the amount of remaining throw / slack in TV cable, I’d guess it was 1/16 to 1/8”

Edit: I'd guess that's the way that Ford would configure it and how they designed the lever ratios, i.e. they wouldn't want the TV lever to bind up before the lever at the throttle body reached it's end of travel. You'd always want a little bit of extra of throw at AOD TV arm.