ARA A/C Rebuild

[cannunz546]

I will get you his name and number tomorrow.

 

[LUBr LuvR]

The adapter plates are cheap and easy to find. I think I paid about $30 for mine. Just do a search for “York to Sanden adapter”. They are all over eBay.

Sanden compressors can also be found at decent prices. I found mine on eBay, new and in the box, for $75. You have to be careful to make sure you are not getting a Chinese clone. I called Sanden to verify that mine was authentic and under warranty. Then I bought the angled hose fitting that I needed and just replaced them so I am still using the old hoses.

Advance Auto has vacuum pumps and a/c manifolds that they loan out. I got those and charged it up. My total cost, including Freon, was about $150 to switch the compressor and charge it up.......

Great information Slowleak, thanks for posting it up and doing the legwork for us. Did you already have the compressor when you called Sanden to verify or were you using the info from the listing? $150 vs sweating = priceless!

 

[Slowleak]

Great information Slowleak, thanks for posting it up and doing the legwork for us. Did you already have the compressor when you called Sanden to verify or were you using the info from the listing? $150 vs sweating = priceless!

I used the info from the listing. The seller had posted a picture of the box with the serial number. Sanden does, or did, have information on their website to help spot clones.

 

[cannunz546]

It was the father son team at BC Broncos. My mechanic buddy did the research so I had to ask him. The bracket worked perfectly. We had to move the new compressor to the driver's side, though. Good luck.

 

[JaxLax]

Good lord have mercy.
Why does everyone who might sell this to me as a kit (like this) get all crazy about selling it to me? No, I don't have an account with you. No, this is not for re-sale; here's a link to what I'm trying to accomplish [CB.com link].
And then I get ghosted.

Can someone just send me something (that as I dig deeper) isn't that weird?
I need a 2" or 2 1/8" eccentric cam, a 3 5/8" v-belt pulley and the necessary bolts. Really. I'd rather not have to order 4 different things and then still go to the hardware store to get everything just right.

I'll order the belt once I can get an actual measurement, but I need all the other parts in hand and installed first.

 

[charlie6976]

You will need an adapter plate and a couple of hose fittings. It’s an easy swap. Your Bronco will also lose a few pounds...
https://jeepair.com/york-to-sanden-conversion-plate.html

Not sure where to go for the idler. The pulley is about 3.75 outside diameter. It’s offset about 1.25 inches from the mounting bolt so you can rotate it to tension the belt.

Since you're going with the Sanden compressor, why don't you get rid of the idler pulley? See how Slowleak has spacers to move the compressor back on the mount so the pulleys line up? Should be able to line it up with your alternator. That will get rid of one belt and pulley.

 

[JaxLax]

Since you're going with the Sanden compressor, why don't you get rid of the idler pulley? See how Slowleak has spacers to move the compressor back on the mount so the pulleys line up? Should be able to line it up with your alternator. That will get rid of one belt and pulley.

Haven't fully decided on the new compressor/switch to Sanden yet.
Since this is aiming for a period correct look; it'll be off, but only the truly critical eyes will recognize it.

But that's a great idea and it hadn't even crossed my mind. I'll do a little more investigation and see if it makes sense. Wondering if there might be an issue with slippage since that'd mean I was driving the compressor off the alternator pulley and not off the engine itself. Or are you saying I run a single belt across the alt/compressor/engine? Would there be enough belt/pulley contact for proper force transfer? And I'll need to double check that it would still clear the fan on it's way up to the compressor.

But again, thanks for the idea!

 

[JaxLax]

I actually found the old/original eccentric in the boxes of parts!
That's good.
It's got bolts seized in there (been soaking in pb blaster for 2 days now and no budge) and one still has the center of the original pulley on it.
That's bad.

But I had already ordered a new eccentric and pulley and they'll be here this week.
That's good.
Every place I've gone to have someone help me/look at it for me has declined or said it'd be a hold over since they can't make as much money on it than the standard work they do.
That's bad.

So, I'm on my own. My plan is to get the fans running (currently no fan power). I've got to figure out if something it blown, or the motors are dead, or whatever. Then I'll install the idler and get a pulley on the system and see where we go from there.
Then take it to a shop to have it pressure checked and flush/filled and hope for cold air.

 

[Rustytruck]

Your old system ran on R-12 and new compressor units run on 134 A. there is stuff they will need to do with the expansion valves to go to 134A. If you have 3 or four cans of R-12 sitting on your shelf you could refill with that. The oil in the compressor and the lines will have to be flushed and changed to go 134A. The old york compressor will probably need a shaft seal kit in it if you want to have any chance of keeping the R-12 in the system.

Before dumping wads of cash in the old R-12 compressor system I would run a vacuum pump on the parts and see if they hold vacuum. I would also talk to your local air conditioner shop to see what they recommend you do. You will also need to buy a new receiver drier too. Just allot of pitfalls resurrecting and old r-12 system.

Maybe you know all about this just pointing it out if you don't.

 

[JaxLax]

Your old system ran on R-12 and new compressor units run on 134 A. there is stuff they will need to do with the expansion valves to go to 134A. If you have 3 or four cans of R-12 sitting on your shelf you could refill with that. The oil in the compressor and the lines will have to be flushed and changed to go 134A. The old york compressor will probably need a shaft seal kit in it if you want to have any chance of keeping the R-12 in the system.

Before dumping wads of cash in the old R-12 compressor system I would run a vacuum pump on the parts and see if they hold vacuum. I would also talk to your local air conditioner shop to see what they recommend you do. You will also need to buy a new receiver drier too. Just allot of pitfalls resurrecting and old r-12 system.

Maybe you know all about this just pointing it out if you don't.

I've been running numbers and trying to see where to go from here.
My baseline comparison here is ordering a new GenIV Surefit system from VintageAir (so let's say approx $1700 and 6 hours of my time).

I've got to get the fans running first, so right now I've got no power. I need to trace the wires and get the fans spinning first. Could be 20 minutes. Could be a few hours.

I've ordered the idler and pulley already (sunk less than $30 with the belt too) then I'll get those on the brackets. Then see if the compressor works and if the system can hold pressure. If not, something will need to be replaced.

If I end up needing to replace the condenser, I'll switch to a Sanden and R134a. Which also means I'll need a seal kit and new drier and etc.

If all goes right (just needs a fill and I find the power quick) this could be a 4-5 hour project with only eBay R12 costs added. If all goes wrong and I end up going with a swap (after going down all the alleys) I have to make a decision on how much my time is worth. At $50/hr, I'd have about 30 hours of effort before I spend more money/time on the old unit and can't guarantee that it'll even be working at that point.

So that's where I'm at.

Is it going to be worth my time (beyond hoping it all goes right)?

Plus I haven't factored in the heater box rebuild (time, effort, and parts) that would be nullified with the surefit system.

Am I talking myself into the new one already?

 

[Slowleak]

You realize that have gone from wanting to keep it 100% stock, including the compressor, to possibly replacing the entire system, heater included, with a SureFit.

When I switched my ARA system over to R134, I didn’t change anything except the high and low pressure service ports, and that was just adding in the correct adapters. After evacuating and recharging, it cooled fine with the old York compressor.

I switched to the Sanden compressor years later and did the evacuation and recharge myself. I borrowed the vacuum pump and gauges from Autozone. You can keep them for like a month or more before returning them. I’m getting 25 degree air out of mine, running R134, with nothing but a compressor swap, no new expansion valve, no new seals, no new receiver drier, no new hoses....

If I was in your situation, I would hook everything you have up, put a vacuum pump on it and make sure you do not have a leak. Then flush it, fill it with 134 and oil, and see how it does. If it cools you are good, if not, then you are out the cost of a few cans of R134.

An evaporator leak would be the showstopper for me and the point where I switched to a new Vintage air system. Any other repair is going to be cheaper than a whole new system.

6 hours to install a Vintage Air system yourself seems really conservative, especially if you get into replacing pulleys, mounting brackets etc.. That will require pulling the radiator, fan, and a lot of old rusted waterpump bolts. That can go south real fast....

 

[JaxLax]

6 hours to install a Vintage Air system yourself seems really conservative, especially if you get into replacing pulleys, mounting brackets etc.. That will require pulling the radiator, fan, and a lot of old rusted waterpump bolts. That can go south real fast....

Considering I have a bracket on the passenger side now and could get an adapter plate for the compressor; some of those worries are removed. Of course, then the hoses will be the incorrect lengths, but shortening them or making new hoses is a lot easier/quicker than following the TBP video of messing with fan shroud and all.

VA has there bracket on the drivers side so at some point I'd have to look at it all and make a decision on which would be overall easier for the install. And I've got an extra idler pulley and bracket in my possession already.

When I switched my ARA system over to R134, I didn’t change anything except the high and low pressure service ports, and that was just adding in the correct adapters. After evacuating and recharging, it cooled fine with the old York compressor. .

You didn't bother to change out the seals?

And I still have to consider the heater box (that doesn't work now either) and the eventual tear down for the body work eventually.

Ugh.

 

[Slowleak]

I didn’t have any leaks so I did not see any reason to change seals. Sometimes it better to leave older stuff alone if it is working. If it was a brake line.. well, that might be a little different.

The ARA systems don’t move a whole lot of air. That’s something else to consider. The Vintage Air system has some advantages....

 

[JaxLax]

Due to the kids Spring Break, no one was home when I got there.
So I aired up the wifes' tires (the little icon was on and they were all about 5lbs low all around) and then triple checked mine and added a some to mine.

No one was home still, so I pulled out the tools and started unhooked the A/C unit and started to trace wires!

Dear PO or dealer installer, please don't extend every wire with black wire next time. It makes it a little difficult to trace when they run parallel and twist and such. %)

BUT I GOT THE FANS BLOWING. Let em run for a few minutes then cleaned them up a little. But step 1 is done. I reinstalled the side vents and condensation lines, so I guess that helps down the road.

Step 2a: check the pressure and wait for the idler pulley to get here to throw on a belt.
Step 2b: find a replacement for the passenger side vent (as shown in the original picture set) guide vanes.

Or should I start trying to figure out how to install some VA vents and make some fiberglass reducer/sleeves to go from the rectangle outlets to a round hose?

 

[JaxLax]

I didn’t have any leaks so I did not see any reason to change seals. Sometimes it better to leave older stuff alone if it is working.

research continues to tell me that swapping over refrigerants (with oil present) will turn R12 oil to gum when R134a is introduced.

So the vacuum test is vital and a full 45-60 minute evac is super important.
Lubricating oil should be added to the refrig (yellow line on test apparatus) and introduced first.

Now I'm sitting here wondering if I should buy everything as if it's gonna work the first time or if I should wait and IF it holds vacuum go get the oil and new refrigerant while doing the full evacuation.

Things to install: idler pulley, v-belt
Things to rent: vacuum pump, gauges, refrig can punch?
Things I might need: UV dye to find leaks? Replacement parts?
Things I'm gonna need to buy: port adapters, oil, refrigerant, a clear weekend day or more
Things I already have: small scale, slight knowledge

 

[Slowleak]

I think it will be fine. I have converted at least 5 old vehicles to R134 and have never had any issues with them gumming up. I get a good vacuum on it with the pump running for an hour or two and let it sit overnight with the gauges connected to test for leaks. Then fill it up using the manifold gauge set and check the pressures.

Since it’s the first time testing it, you might pull a vacuum for 10 minutes or so, then let it sit for a few minutes to see if the needles move. If not, then proceed with the full evacuation. No reason to run the vacuum pump for a full hour only to find that you have a leak.

 

[JaxLax]

Since it’s the first time testing it, you might pull a vacuum for 10 minutes or so, then let it sit for a few minutes to see if the needles move. If not, then proceed with the full evacuation. No reason to run the vacuum pump for a full hour only to find that you have a leak.

Another question: do you remember or know where you got the port adapters for the lines? Looking at mine, I have no hard metal lines so I assume the ports are here (see arrows in attached photo)?

I was trying to gear up to go all in on this this weekend, but now I'm going to shoot for getting the port adapters on, the pulley and belt installed.

I've still got to figure out how much refrigerant this system is going to need. I keep looking at literature and articles about the swap and some say that systems going to R134a need LESS oil in the system that the R12 (by weight).

Trying to see if I'm better off buying some type of kit or just getting the individual parts I need.

 

[Slowleak]

You can get the port adapters at almost any parts store. They are usually in a bubble pack right there with the Freon. Those are the ports in your pictures. One is high pressure, the other is low. The kit will have adapters for both included. Should be about $12


Not sure how much oil a York requires. Here’s a link to a manual that may help. You want to make sure you get the correct type of oil also....
http://www.240.se/litteratur/york.pdf

 

[JaxLax]

You can get the port adapters at almost any parts store. They are usually in a bubble pack right there with the Freon. Those are the ports in your pictures. One is high pressure, the other is low. The kit will have adapters for both included. Should be about $12

Not sure how much oil a York requires. Here’s a link to a manual that may help. You want to make sure you get the correct type of oil also....
http://www.240.se/litteratur/york.pdf

Yup. You run into all these things now: kits with oil/lube premixed with the R-134a and other additives like sealers or UV or whatever.

And looking at the adapter ports, I need to make sure that I get ones that have a 90 degree turn so that I have space to attach the gauges.

 

[JaxLax]

UUUUUUPPPPPPPPDDDDDDAAAAAATTTTTTTEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I was running hard and fast at night and, at least, feel like I got a lot done or, at the very least, got a few more things off the checklist!

This is just a recap of how things happened, skip to the bottom if you just want the facts. Look for the numbered list.

It was a battle again; enjoy my pain.
I did find the original eccentric bracket (and pulley) when I went back through the boxes of parts! Now that I know what I was looking for it was pretty obvious %). Note to all out there: NEVER THROW/GIVE AWAY A PART UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS. I've learned that lesson a time or two and luckily I listened to myself when I was clearing out the boxes after getting home. The problem was that the mounting bolt and shoulder bolt (with inner pulley ring) were seized/rusted/locked out. So I shot them with a liberal amount of pb blaster in a plastic container, sealed it on Wednesday, and left it in the garage to soak for a few days. You know, just in case. %)

Friday after work I drove over to Lowes, picked up a new mounting bolt, lock washer, and some odds and ends for the house.
Friday night I pulled her into the garage, popped the hood and set out to get things going! I've got all the parts to get the bracket and pulley on.

I go to install my new bracket and get it on, then install the pulley and watch it squeeze into the radiator hose. Super . Pull out the original bracket and line them up, yup, the original looks to be 1/8-3/16" taller. It's dark and I'm stubborn. So I remove the new bracket and pulley and set about going after those seized bolts. Just going to swallow the $15 on the new bracket because, hey, if I need a idler for the OTHER side with a VA system, I've got a new bracket already!

Those bolts made me very angry. I got the mounting bolt off after getting out my twin 16" wrenches and putting one on the ground and stepping/jumping on the other. The old shoulder bolt, well, that one made me really angry. I tried a vise and wrenches, I tried the aforementioned jumping, nothing. I ended up starting to crease/wear down the edges of the bolt. Desperate times call for desperate measures. OH HI DREMEL CUTTING DISCS. I cut a relief into the old pulley ring then took my impact drill bits and hammered it off. Then hammered about a 1/3 of the way around the bearing and the bracket and BAM it released. Took it off by hand the rest of the way. %) That was about 530-8pm on Friday. Cleaned up and put the kids to bed. All I had to show for the nights labor was an old bracket with no more seized bolts.

Saturday afternoon (post egg hunt) got both kids down for naps so it was BACK TO THE GARAGE.

Got the old bracket in and pulley installed! But it was a frogs hair from radiator hose. So, I flipped the lock washer from the bolt/mount to the mount/bracket side and picked up the needed clearance! ;D I've got about 1/8" on the hose and 3/16" on the fan. I was told it would be a tight fit and people weren't kidding! I had been worried also about the alignment of the pulleys (didn't seem to be perfectly lined up), but after the little bump from the washer it seemed to be close enough.

Next I pulled out some string and measured for my pulley. String with minimal pressure and idler at it's widest point was 50". And spent some time prepping the ports for the adapters (pulled off caps, tested valves [no pressure in either], cleaned threads, and left them to dry) So off we went to the parts store again! Grab a 49.5" and 50" and the 'universal' port adapter kit.

Nope. None of it worked. :-X Pulleys are too short and my high side adapter doesn't fit. After a little investigation, I find out that 'some' vehicles/'some' compressors need a different sized fitting. There wasn't a way to know this since the R12 adapters that were put on the compressors changed sizes during the production run and I didn't know when mine was installed. So back to the parts store!

Grabbed a 51/52" belts and another kit that had the larger port adapter. Finished up the port swap, but the belts were still too short! Late Saturday night I got the 53/54" belts and came home. After getting the kids to bed I got both the 53/54 on the pulleys and decided to go with the 53" as the 54" seemed to lack the tension I wanted even though the 53" felt a little tight. Then I helped the wife stuff eggs and set up for Sunday.

Sunday afternoon I get back to the garage, finally, and get to fire it up. It's holding tension and no squeals! ;D;D;D Throw the boy in (he'd woken up from his nap) and we ride out to return the 54" belt. Inquire about what houses have the pump/gauges in stock (only 2/6 O'Reillys in Jax have them).

Come home and I pop the hood; let's do one last test! Turn the fans on high and open the valves to max cooling and BAM WE HAVE CLUTCH ENGAGEMENT! YYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! So at least the wiring and switch work too for the clutch. Get the boy to turn it on and off for me a few times and we shut it down for the weekend.

I think we made some good progress and got into the next stage; even if it took longer than I wanted, it's progress.

In summation:
1a. Got the original eccentric bracket mounted with the new pulley.
1b. Needed a lock washer to move it off the radiator hose and left me with a 3/16" clearance on the fan and 1/8" on the radiator hose.
2. Measured 50" string, but needed a 53" belt to get good tension.
3. Clutch works!
4. You will need the "special"/different from standard 7/16" high side retrofit valve if you have the same unit/compressor setup as me. (A/C PRO part #VA-7H). The standard is a 3/8" valve for reference.

Up next weekend: Friday I'll ride across town to get a vacuum pump and gauges. Check for leaks on Friday night/evening and go from there. Hopefully I'll have cold air by sundown on Sunday!;D