Ball joint snap rings?

[tacobronco]

It's been so long since i tore apart my Dana 44 that I forgot where the original ball joint snap rings were (upper or lower). However, both the Ford factory manual and the Dana axle service manual say that the snap ring goes on the lower ball joint. But here's where it gets interesting... I am trying to install a set of genuine Dana/Spicer ball joints, and there is simply no way to install the snap ring on the lower joint - even when the joint is fully seated, the snap ring groove doesn't even show on the other side yet, let alone be out far enough to install the snap ring. Yes, I am positive that I am seating the joint completely in the socket - in fact i can see by measurements that it just wont work - the groove would need to be another 1/16 inch (0.060) further out to even get close to being able to get the ring on. However, the measurements on the upper joint look OK - it will install with the snap ring.

I looked online and all the other manufacturers (NAPA, Raybestos, Moog, and the cheap import crap) supply the snap ring with the lower joint.

So, did I get a bad Dana/Spicer part, or did they change their approach to putting the snap ring on the top? I'm thinking of returning the Dana/Spice joints anyway and switching to Moog. The Dana/Spicer joints are not greasable, and they don't feel particularly tight for a brand new ball joint.

Any insight would be appreciated!

 

[garberz]

I installed a set of professional grade Raybestos on my 76' 44, the snap rings go on the bottom. Then I installed a set of the set of the standard grade Raybestos on my buddies 74' 44, and couldn't use the snap ring, for the same reasons you describe. I don't know if it's the knuckles or the Ball Joints that are different.

 

[mofoco1]

There is an additional tool kit specifically for 4x4 that has an adapter that goes on the C clamp/installer that pushes the ball joint further into the knuckle, When I did the 79 swap I had to grind down the inside of the knuckle with a flap wheel where the adapter did not seat flat. That took care of it and the bj seated fully allowing me to install SS snap rings both top and bottom. Probably not needed, but I like overkill anyway. I got the Napa Premiums and I found the SS at a local old time Hardware store where I go to find oddball stuff. See pics below:

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[Broncitis]

If you have the correct ball joints and they are properly seated, you should be able to get the snap ring on the bottom with little or no problems.

I never use the C-frame type tools, I always use my shop press and have some pieces of tube for drivers to seat them.

 

[garberz]

I used a 20 ton press to press the ball joints into the knuckle. The lower ball joint presses into a machined recess, no need for any special tool, it will only press in until the ball joint is fully seated. To install the snap ring underneath, You would need to grind off the surface of the knuckle enough to expose the snap ring groove. I wasn't going to do that on my buddies, we just ran it with no snap rings. Mine worked out to install the snap rings. Looking at the pic, I would say the non disk brake knuckles are a bit different, so the snap rings don't fit.

 

[mofoco1]

The regular borrow kit at Autozone and O'reilly's would not work without the addition of the 4x4 supplementary kit because there was not enough reach with the what was provided, again most don't have the hydraulic presses to do this at home, so like me had to borrow the tools. So if you are using the c clamp type ask for the 4x4 extras, or like a few I've seen here leave the BJ out a bit,(I am not condoning this, but you are big boys you make the call). I got rid of my drum knuckles so I can't attest to the missing recess you speak of. Napa did not provide a ring with the upper either, but since I could fit it, I did. By the way I think Raybestos professional, Napa Premiums and maybe the Moog hi end BJ's are all made by Moog, different packaging.

 

[tacobronco]

I am using a c-frame press, but that's not the issue - I have all the 4x4 extensions and adapters. Like I said, it was definitely fully seated (verified visually and with feeler gauge), and subsequent measurements with a digital caliper showed it would never work (without grinding the knuckle alot).

Almost looks like my lowers are either incorrect, or Dana is cutting costs by making the socket the same on the upper and lower and expects you to install the snap ring on the upper now.

Anyway, thanks for the help so far! I am picking up some Moog joints in the morning and I'll post what I find.

 

[broncosam]

I could be wrong but I seem to remember something on this subject quite awhile back and several responses were of the opinion that the snap rings were an overkill and that it can be okay to not install them. I am interested in seeing if anyone has had any issues by leaving the snap rings off.

 

[mofoco1]

Taco Post pics so we can see the offensive! parts. What knuckles are you using also?

 

[Timmy390]

I installed a set of NAPA prem ball joints on 79 bronco knuckles this summer while doing my disk conversion on my 74. I used my HF 20 ton press and was able to install snap rings on both upper and lower ball joints with out grinding or special tools.

Tim

 

[kiteoregon]

I did this yesterday with a 12-ton press, however i did grind down the bottom of the knuckle just a bit so that the snap ring would fit.

 

[garberz]

That's what I gathered, some can run snap rings, some need to grind off a bit on the bottom to get them to fit. My bud's 74' doesn't have snap rings. As much direct pressure it took to seat the ball joints, there's no way they could work their way out. It's kind of like the rear axle walking off the pressed on wheel bearing. There's no snap rings in a 9".

Mark

 

[tacobronco]

Thanks for the continued help! I am using dana 44 drum brake knuckles (the ones with the 6 bolt spindles). I have two knuckles from an original Bronco axle with a 71 date code on the axle, and one knuckle that I bought used from a bronco vendor, and they all have the same issue. Here's some pics...

A caliper depth gage measuring the depth of the hole in the knuckle:

And that same measurement translated to the ball joint:

(BTW, this measurement is about 0.710)

I looked at both the Moog ball joints and the import cheapies this morning at my local part store, and they are the same. Starting to seem like I am either going to need to grind the knuckles, or go commando-style without the lower snap rings. I think the issue is you need snap rings on at least one ball joint to prevent the knuckle from slipping down when you lift a tire. (Yeah, I know its a press fit, but w/o snap rings there is nothing positive to keep them retained.)

 

[mofoco1]

If you are getting the same reading from the rest of the BJ's then I am assuming it's the knuckles themselves. Having said this, I have never changed BJ's on a drum knuckle, I have always swapped out to discs before I have had to do that. Before I have had to change king pins I have swapped to BJ's and again the disc route. Maybe post the title geared towards those with only drum style knuckles, may have more insite to this ordeal. One thing the grinding I did on the 79's was not to the snap ring area at all, just to the structure that was keeping the adapter from seating square. Sorry for not being anymore help..Mo

 

[garberz]

So this means, the original Spicer Ball Joints made back in the day, were a little bit longer, between the seating lip and the snap ring groove. Has anyone not been able to get the snap rings on, with the 76' and newer Dana 44? So far this has been my experience.

Mark

 

[mofoco1]

Sorry a bit OT

Garberz I know when I just did the79 knuckle swap I had great spindles so I wanted to reuse them. I got all new in guts and hubs and locks. Anyway seems the new bearings wont work on the old spindles the correct part# at 5 different parts houses would not work. Seems they changed the spec by like .00125" smaller on the new bearings same on the new spindles(bastard 1%ers). That pissed me off so I polished the spindles and still used their friggin bearings. Last swap for me was like 15 years prior on my last EB and back then the specs were right on. So it doesn't surprise me if they had changed the depth, who knows!