Best high HP/daily driver engine setup

[antonm]

Hello all. I'm building a 74 Bronco to be used a daily driver / weekend wheeler.
It currently has the stock 302 and c4 in it.

I'm looking for what you think would be the best engine/ trans / transfer case combo for a high horse power daily driver.(I'm a long time gear head/ horsepower junkie so the though of building a sub 300 horse V8 just makes me wonder why even bother).

My current thought is a bored and stroked, roller 351, with a mild cam (good for street/ trail use). Paired to the stock C4 (build by a reputable shop), and an atlas 4 transfer case.

 

[antonm]

Continued,

The reason for the atlas 4 case is so that I could run relatively high gears (like 3.73 gears with 35-37 inch tires) and run the transfer case portion in low range (rear drive only of course) for normal street driving and shift the case into high range for highway cruising. And the range box portion (which isn't synchronized like the transfer case is) would still be there for low range offroad use.

So, am I crazy and out to lunch?

 

[Broncobowsher]

Engine thought is good. A touch of compression and some modern aluminum heads will work great.

Transmission side is wack. I had to do that low range on the street thing once when I lost 1st gear in a BroncoII. It doesn't work in reality nearly as well as it does on paper or in your head.

Daily driver with highway use, 4R70W. Ditch the C4. Lock up torque convertor with overdrive will make freeway flying a breeze. The low gears (transmission and axle) will make stop and go traffic a blast. In low range it gets creepy slow pretty easy. You can even lock the convertor on down grades and get extra engine braking that you will never see with a C4.

 

[antonm]

I thought about the 4R70W (and still haven't ruled it out), but it does have two big downsides for me.

#1. Electronics. I'm trying to keep electrical and electronics as small as possible. Yes I'm gonna run EFI, but plans are for one of the stand alone EFI units that bolt to a 4150 carb flange.

#2. Front driveshaft clearance. I'm only looking to run 35-37 inch tires so I won't be running a ton of lift and the pan on the 4R70W gets in the way of the front shaft.

I may just have to get over the electronics and driveshaft issues and run a 4R70W anyway. But as a former drag racer I have a soft spot for the all mechanical and no electronics C4.

 

[77RHINO]

I run a warmed up 351W/NV3550/D20/3.50s/33" tires and have loved it so far, just got 4.56s and am saving up for the rest of that install currently. Are you only looking at autos?

 

[Broncobowsher]

Driveshaft isn't nearly as big of a deal as you make it out to be.
The electronics and tuning of the transmission are way simpler then EFI.
Being a gear head you will appreciate the ability for the transmission to be tuned gear for gear at different throttle settings. You don't compromise one shift in order to tune a different shift.

 

[Yeller]

I'm going to get yelled at and told to STFU..... 6.2 w/ a 6L80E. 500hp lots of gear options, no need for deep tcase gears (2.0 is plenty), 5.13's in the axles and LOTS of tire smoke with OEM reliability.

But I also get staying blue and not being the bastard child, 408 with a nice set of heads, rumpty cam, FAST fuel injection and your choice of trans. And yes the low range thing does not work as well in reality as it does on paper, so choose gearing and trans carefully. And if you don't want to run electronics 700r4 is an option (just not a blue oval) and when properly assembled are robust.

I'm involved in a project with Ford power, we could not build this for the money and it comes with a great warranty.http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mll-bpf4084ctf/overview/make/ford

 

[antonm]

I run a warmed up 351W/NV3550/D20/3.50s/33" tires and have loved it so far, just got 4.56s and am saving up for the rest of that install currently. Are you only looking at autos?

Yeah, I'm only looking at autos. This is to be a family friendly build (so many of my past ones haven't been and the wife's getting a little tired of vehicles that can't hold her and the kids, that she can't drive anyway, so an auto is defiantly in the cards for this one).

 

[antonm]

I'm going to get yelled at and told to STFU..... 6.2 w/ a 6L80E. 500hp lots of gear options, no need for deep tcase gears (2.0 is plenty), 5.13's in the axles and LOTS of tire smoke with OEM reliability.
And if you don't want to run electronics 700r4 is an option (just not a blue oval) and when properly assembled are robust.

I had actually considered a 6.0 truck (either LQ4 or LQ9) and a 4L80E as they are a lot easier to find (and cheaper) than the 6.2 option and can be built to make decent (and reliable) naturally aspirated HP . I'm not opposed to running a GM power plant but since that isn't exactly a popular swap (into an early bronco ) the aftermarket support for it isn't really there. And small custom things add up (like getting a custom radiator with the correct side inlets/ outlets and a port for the LS head steam vents for example)

 

[antonm]

Driveshaft isn't nearly as big of a deal as you make it out to be.
The electronics and tuning of the transmission are way simpler then EFI.
Being a gear head you will appreciate the ability for the transmission to be tuned gear for gear at different throttle settings. You don't compromise one shift in order to tune a different shift.

I do appreciate the advantages of electronic controls, but I've also had an aftermarket trans brake solenoid fail, locking my transmission in both first and reverse at the same time. At that particular moment, I forgot all about their advantages.

I'll probably end up running an electronically controlled overdrive transmission, I was just trying to see if there were any other reasonable options out there.

 

[Yeller]

I had actually considered a 6.0 truck (either LQ4 or LQ9) and a 4L80E as they are a lot easier to find (and cheaper) than the 6.2 option and can be built to make decent (and reliable) naturally aspirated HP . I'm not opposed to running a GM power plant but since that isn't exactly a popular swap (into an early bronco ) the aftermarket support for it isn't really there. And small custom things add up (like getting a custom radiator with the correct side inlets/ outlets and a port for the LS head steam vents for example)

Its really not that bad if you your willing to do some fabrication. I've used standard radiators without issue and for the steam line it usually works out that the upper hose is 2 piece and I just put it in the coupler. The exhaust is the big deal, the frame is so narrow its difficult to find a combination that fits without custom building headers. but there's not much that is a "bolt in". I'm not a bolt in guy and build entire rigs from scratch with no doner to start from so what to me is no big deal is a huge deal to others.

 

[antonm]

Yeah, I was just using the radiator as an example. Other custom fab things I see off the top of my head with an LS swap are headers/exhaust, front drive accessories fitting between frame rails, all wet sump LS engines are rear sump, so frame/ front end/ front driveshaft clearance issues, motor mounts, transmissions are HUGE so probably mandatory body lift and maybe tunnel mods, power steering hose will have to be made, throttle cable (if not using the newer fly by wire LS stuff, then that's another issue), and I'm sure there are more things I'm missing.
And while all of these issues absolutely can be worked through/ around, it may negate the cost savings of the LS and may incur a big time to project completion hit.

 

[Yeller]

yes bang for the buck and quick turn its hard to beat the crate engine I posted. We looked at building the same engine from an existing 351, we couldn't by the stroker parts, heads, machine work and injection system for that price let alone the warranty.

My situation is a little different in my build it didn't matter what motor I used, it all was a custom install, I couldn't tell you the last time I worked on something that started with anything more than a chalk sketch on the weld table that grew onto the floor.

 

[BanditBronco]

You could always run a full manual valve body in the 4r70w to get rid of the electronics part of things... Don't know many drag racers that don't run that option anyway

 

[antonm]

You could always run a full manual valve body in the 4r70w to get rid of the electronics part of things... Don't know many drag racers that don't run that option anyway

I thought about that, but a reverse manual valve body ( don't think I've ever seen a full manual valve body that wasn't also reverse, at least I've never used one anyway ) just doesn't fit with what I'm trying to build. I want to be able to let my wife drive this thing from time to time and I'm already going to do a twin stick t-case, kinda want to keep the transmission shifting in the normal automatic method. Although I do have a funny story about trying to teach my wife how to launch a car with a reserve manual valve body and a trans brake, let’s just say it didn't go well and after three attempts she was crying because i was "yelling at her". The car was so loud that yelling was the only way of communicating?:?.

 

[antonm]

Any other opinions

Is the general concesus then a big cube 351 with a mid cam and a 4R70W (and just deal with the electonics and front driveshaft clearance issues as they come)

 

[5001craig]

yes bang for the buck and quick turn its hard to beat the crate engine I posted. We looked at building the same engine from an existing 351, we couldn't by the stroker parts, heads, machine work and injection system for that price let alone the warranty.

My situation is a little different in my build it didn't matter what motor I used, it all was a custom install, I couldn't tell you the last time I worked on something that started with anything more than a chalk sketch on the weld table that grew onto the floor.

I gave that same 408 crate engine print-out to a local builder and his initial price back was eight grand all-in for the engine only. Major upgrades in his package but he was not going FAST fuel injection (two grand). I would really like to go this route but I think known internals are better as I can add Fast later. AND he's a huge fan of internal balancing...

400 hp with torque as a priority. I don't know everything but I like the way this guy thinks.

 

[EricLar80]

Any other opinions

Is the general concesus then a big cube 351 with a mid cam and a 4R70W (and just deal with the electonics and front driveshaft clearance issues as the come)

I agree that this is a good plan - exactly what I did!

My original front driveshaft was a little too large of diameter, so I pulled a front one from a junkyard 1992ish explorer (2 inch diameter), and had it cut down to length (25.75 inches). Wasn't a big deal.

The 4r70w really is a great transmission. No complaints from me. In fact, the overdrive allows you to have the option of putting in lower gears in your axle because it reduces the rpms by 30%. I am at about 1850 rpm at 65mph with my setup when in OD, with my current 4.10 gears and 33" tires. I am considering 4.88's.

Eric

 

[broncnaz]

Id say go with a OD tranny and lower axle gearing you'll be happier in the end. If your looking at running 35 to 37in tires then your going to need more than 3.5in total lift. A 351 stroker with a mild cam will be a TQ monster not a high RPM HP monster.
While a Atlas 4 would be nice Id also say its not going to do what you think it will on the street even with the 1.5 low range option, Slip up and shift the wrong direction at speed wont be to good on the vehicle or your face. plus you really wouldnt need it on the street unless you just wanted to roast tires.
The OD tranny even with the needed electronics should work out cheaper than a atlas 4. Then with either options you need to consider upgrading the axles. Big tires, high torque, low gearing and a gear heads right foot will result in short lived axles unless you upgrade.
On the other hand do the engine stick with your C4 and current gearing with say 33in. tires or no bigger than 35's and see how you like it. You can always decide what direction to go after that. Its hard to suggest a perfect combo because everyone has different needs/wants and experiances. But Id say most of the suggestions you've gotten are on the right track.

 

[76Broncofromhell]

Hello all. I'm building a 74 Bronco to be used a daily driver / weekend wheeler.
It currently has the stock 302 and c4 in it.

I'm looking for what you think would be the best engine/ trans / transfer case combo for a high horse power daily driver.(I'm a long time gear head/ horsepower junkie so the though of building a sub 300 horse V8 just makes me wonder why even bother).

My current thought is a bored and stroked, roller 351, with a mild cam (good for street/ trail use). Paired to the stock C4 (build by a reputable shop), and an atlas 4 transfer case.

If you're going to drive on the highway often, dump the 1960s technology non-lock up, non-OD transmission. Leave the case in high range, let the transmission shift the gears for you.

Your transfercase idea is a bad one. Are you actually going to wheel this hard? If not save your money. It's a fine transfercase, but by no means is it necessary. Unless you've broken an output shaft, you probably aren't close to needing one.

I'd go with what everyone else says, electronically controlled 4R70W, and an EFI stroker motor. I think most guys get a little big in the eyes when it comes to gears on these things. If you aren't going to take it out and bend the rocker panels, then running 4.10s or even 3.73s with a 35" tire and an overdrive transmission is perfectly fine.

Id say go with a OD tranny and lower axle gearing you'll be happier in the end. If your looking at running 35 to 37in tires then your going to need more than 3.5in total lift. A 351 stroker with a mild cam will be a TQ monster not a high RPM HP monster.
While a Atlas 4 would be nice Id also say its not going to do what you think it will on the street even with the 1.5 low range option, Slip up and shift the wrong direction at speed wont be to good on the vehicle or your face. plus you really wouldnt need it on the street unless you just wanted to roast tires.
The OD tranny even with the needed electronics should work out cheaper than a atlas 4. Then with either options you need to consider upgrading the axles. Big tires, high torque, low gearing and a gear heads right foot will result in short lived axles unless you upgrade.
On the other hand do the engine stick with your C4 and current gearing with say 33in. tires or no bigger than 35's and see how you like it. You can always decide what direction to go after that. Its hard to suggest a perfect combo because everyone has different needs/wants and experiances. But Id say most of the suggestions you've gotten are on the right track.

And I agree.