Blown Head Gasket;Now What????

[Trojan]

Well, I'm back again... First off thanks to everyone who replied to my previous questions. Been busy with work and haven't had time to get working on my Bronco. You may remember my previous two threads about my motor and other questions for a newb. I've linked them down below for anyone who might run into the same problems. I posted videos in one thread to kinda give an idea of what happened.

302 Puking Water
http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221653

Carb Spacer Question and other Questions for a newb
http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221040

I've taking the head off of the passenger side. Here is an alubum posted on Imgur. (just an note here: Imgur is ten times better than photobucket. Highly quality and resolution and no upload limits. I will be signing up for contributor soon so don't worry about not supporting this message forum.)

http://imgur.com/a/VNI8j#0

look at the Number 3 cylinder; thats where the blown head gasket happened. I assume?

In my previous threads I went into greater detail but the too long; didn't read is: Ran hot at 230 degrees in less than a mile. Stopped and cooled radiator down with water hose for 5-10 minutes then put water in radiator and came home and it was smoking.

So my question is, what do I do next? Take the just this head in and get it checked or go ahead and take the other one in and get it checked too?

Just get a new head gasket and and synch everything back down to spec with torque wrench?

Both heads were supposedly checked and magnafluxed before they were installed professionally. (motor was built professionally; myself and my certified mechanic, NADC graduate, friend installed the motor.)

How do I get all that antifreeze and watery oil off the motor and out of the cylinders? Or am I doomed to a lifetime of white smoke with this engine?

How do i know if i cracked the block and/or heads?

Is this motor ruined?

I just feel like none of these are the answer though because it doesn't address the root of problem. I.E. what caused it to overheat in the first place.
It has a new "high flow" water pump and a new fan shroud. It has a 190 degree thermostat in it (facing the right direction!). I also assume the head gasket was placed on correctly but I didn't see the "FRONT" stamp that everyone talks about on here...

Do I possibly need a newer bigger radiator?

What to do??

Thanks again!

 

[Airborne69]

You should be fine with replacing the head gasket and putting it all back together. If you want to be safe, you should have the head checked for cracks and warping.

What is your radiator hose setup? I personally had issues because my lower rad hose connects to the engine on the drivers side, and to the radiator on the passenger side. Under RPM the hose would collapse in on itself. The radiator was also bit clogged. With those two issues, there was more water entering the radiator than exiting.....big problem! The extra water would then be forced out of the system through the overflow tank.

How does the truck overheat? Is it more of an issue on long trips, or every time you drive it?

 

[Trojan]

You should be fine with replacing the head gasket and putting it all back together. If you want to be safe, you should have the head checked for cracks and warping.

What is your radiator hose setup? I personally had issues because my lower rad hose connects to the engine on the drivers side, and to the radiator on the passenger side. Under RPM the hose would collapse in on itself. The radiator was also bit clogged. With those two issues, there was more water entering the radiator than exiting.....big problem! The extra water would then be forced out of the system through the overflow tank.

How does the truck overheat? Is it more of an issue on long trips, or every time you drive it?

It was mainly overheating at low temperatures. It was fine cruising down the highway, just didn't do well in "City" ie stop and go driving.

"The extra water would then be forced out of the system through the overflow tank. " I have the same hose setup! How did you fix that???

My was doing the exact same thing. Although i dont know for sure if the hose on the bottom was collapsing or not.. Did you replace the radiator or just the hose?

 

[Bronco Junkie]

That water hole does not look good. It looks rusted through and there is a big hole. I am no seasoned mechanic....but I would say without fixing that you will still have a problem. Hopefully Viperwolf or Dirt Donk will be in here and comment.

 

[Trojan]

Had to take them with my phone, so not the best quality. I cant find my cord for my camera. Ill see if i can track down another one and get better pictures if that might help.

 

[AZ73]

There isn't enough picture for me to be sure but I'm assuming in the picture of the cylinders, the LEFT side is the back of the engine? Your head gaskets were put on backwards so the pressure just blew that point in the #3. you can see on the gasket holes for the water at the rear of the block next to #4 cylinder which should be open are not there, only a rust mark. That part of the gasket should face the FRONT of the engine blocking the water gasket at the FRONT forcing the water towards the BACK. I posted this thought on your other thread with this link (note in the picture where the front and back of the engine are, it's reversed from your picture)

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/302-...on-161338.html

When the gaskets are put on backwards, the water simply flows from the radiator through the front water jacket, and back to the radiator.

Clean it up with a towel and spray some WD40 in the cylinders, being careful not to get it on any surface that will have a gasket. Put in new gaskets paying attention to where they are printed "FRONT", reassemble, new oil, and you should be fine, but since the quality of the picture is bad, have someone look at that head at #3 to make sure that's just dark color and not a crack or rusted through.

 

[Rustytruck]

In your photos it looks like your head gaskits were backwards. Where the water jackets are in the back of the block you have just a small vent in the gaskit. usually they block the water passages in the front not the back of the heads forcing water to flow through the head out to the front. If it were me I would clean up everything using paper towels to suck up the old antifreeze and water laden oil. drain the pan and leave the plug out. Now hose down everything with WD-40 and let it flow down to the pan and drain out the pan hole. Now take clean motor oil and lube the cylinders and lifter cam area. clean the head and block and spray the gaskit surfaces with brake cleaner. now put the head on the block without a gaskit and put the head bolts in finger tight making sure each bolt goes all the way down down to the head that way you will know that the head will properly clamp down when you put a gaskit in there. If all the bolts go down good then remove the head and clean the block and head gaskit areas again with brake cleaner to remove any oil. Now install the head and and properly torque down the head in at least 3 steps. Put in the drain plug and change the oil filter. Reassemble the head rocker and valve components. Drizzle clean oil on everything and install the intake. use a good gaskit set. I would use factory ford or Mc cord gaskits. I am not a fan of Felpro with all the intake failures the last couple of years. Always replace both head gaskits. Use a gaskit set designed for the year of your heads check the casting numbers. Remember to fill with oil and water. I use water instead if antifreeze until the motor has proven its self then I change it out for a 50/50 antifreeze mix. No sence dumping antifreeze on the ground because you forgot something.

 

[Trojan]

You should be fine with replacing the head gasket and putting it all back together. If you want to be safe, you should have the head checked for cracks and warping.

There isn't enough picture for me to be sure but I'm assuming in the picture of the cylinders, the LEFT side is the back of the engine? Yes, that is correct.


Your head gaskets were put on backwards so the pressure just blew that point in the #3. you can see on the gasket holes for the water at the rear of the block next to #4 cylinder which should be open are not there, only a rust mark. That part of the gasket should face the FRONT of the engine blocking the water gasket at the FRONT forcing the water towards the BACK. I posted this thought on your other thread with this link (note in the picture where the front and back of the engine are, it's reversed from your picture)

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/302-...on-161338.html

When the gaskets are put on backwards, the water simply flows from the radiator through the front water jacket, and back to the radiator.

Clean it up with a towel and spray some WD40 in the cylinders, being careful not to get it on any surface that will have a gasket. Put in new gaskets paying attention to where they are printed "FRONT", reassemble, new oil, and you should be fine, but since the quality of the picture is bad, have someone look at that head at #3 to make sure that's just dark color and not a crack or rusted through.

How do I need to handle this hand who is a reported "professional" who built my engine then?

Do I need to take the drivers side off too and check it?

Quick edit: I went back out and looked again. He DID install the head gasket on backwards. I found the stamp that says "Front" it was facing the firewall and rusted over also had liquid gasket cover it up. took a screwdriver and scraped it off.

I'm FREAKING PISSED right now!!!!! I'll add another photo shortly

 

[Timmy390]

How do I need to handle this hand who is a reported "professional" who built my engine then?

Do I need to take the drivers side off too and check it?

Quick edit: I went back out and looked again. He DID install the head gasket on backwards. I found the stamp that says "Front" it was facing the firewall and rusted over also had liquid gasket cover it up. took a screwdriver and scraped it off.

I'm FREAKING PISSED right now!!!!! I'll add another photo shortly

Me and him would be having a "come to Jesus" meeting. Everyone makes mistakes and as a "pro" he/she should own up to the fact a mistake was make and "make it right". If the head is damaged then he needs to replace the heads.

I had a 390FE built local to my specs. After getting in installed and broken in it had a small oil leak in the back of the intake manifold (their know for that) and the builder came to my house and made the repair in my garage. I helped but my point is, he made a mistake and drive 40 miles one way to my place to make it right.

Tim

 

[Trojan]

Here is the "Front" Stamp on the head gasket

http://imgur.com/bjZfvvl

it was face down (front stamping) face down against the block on the number 4 cylinder against the firewall. IE it was on the left hand side if you're facing the engine from the passenger side fender.

Do I need to take the drivers side off too?

 

[Rustytruck]

If he didnt do the left side correct what makes you think he can do the right side correct. Mistakes happen he should atleast reimburse you for a new gaskit set. I wouldn't touch it any further until you get a responce from the builder.

 

[AZ73]

If he didnt do the left side correct what makes you think he can do the right side correct. Mistakes happen he should atleast reimburse you for a new gaskit set. I wouldn't touch it any further until you get a responce from the builder.

I agree. Don't take anything else off. Show him the pictures (it was obvious to me and RustyTruck) that it was his error, and that you didn't take it off and reverse it to blame him. I would suggest ANOTHER complete rebuild as if it overheated enough to pop a new gasket it probably needs to be magnifluxed (heads and block) but I would check with your other buddy to see what he thinks. Don't let him talk you into just putting new gaskets on unless there's a guarantee that if something else is wrong when it's running again, he'll fix that too. If there's an internal crack because of the pressure, new gaskets won't find or fix that problem. Keep us posted.

 

[Trojan]

I agree. Don't take anything else off. Show him the pictures (it was obvious to me and RustyTruck) that it was his error, and that you didn't take it off and reverse it to blame him. I would suggest ANOTHER complete rebuild as if it overheated enough to pop a new gasket it probably needs to be magnifluxed (heads and block) but I would check with your other buddy to see what he thinks. Don't let him talk you into just putting new gaskets on unless there's a guarantee that if something else is wrong when it's running again, he'll fix that too. If there's an internal crack because of the pressure, new gaskets won't find or fix that problem. Keep us posted.

I'm not going to touch it anymore until I talk to him. I have over 30-40 pictures i took when I was taking it apart. I did this mainly to help me put it back together. I don't even want to tell how much I paid this hand between parts and labor. I'm not a mechanic by trade and I took it to him believing it would be done right. He came highly highly recommended and his prices reflect that. I know 4 people with whom I worked with who had motors built and had ZERO problems! One of them dyno'd over 500HP!!!!!! So I just assumed a very mild ford 302 would be a cake walk!

So I'm going to cool down and call tomorrow and give the guy a chance. I understand mistakes happen and we'll see if he gets it right.

But my question is, do i ask for a complete rebuild again or try head gaskets first?
Or do I ask for a refund and take it somewhere else?

I'm just worried there might be other problems like a cracked block and/or heads. Not really sure what to ask for as I've never had to deal with this kind of thing before...

 

[AZ73]

I'm not going to touch it anymore until I talk to him. I have over 30-40 pictures i took when I was taking it apart. I did this mainly to help me put it back together. I don't even want to tell how much I paid this hand between parts and labor. I'm not a mechanic by trade and I took it to him believing it would be done right. He came highly highly recommended and his prices reflect that. I know 4 people with whom I worked with who had motors built and had ZERO problems! One of them dyno'd over 500HP!!!!!! So I just assumed a very mild ford 302 would be a cake walk!

So I'm going to cool down and call tomorrow and give the guy a chance. I understand mistakes happen and we'll see if he gets it right.

But my question is, do i ask for a complete rebuild again or try head gaskets first?
Or do I ask for a refund and take it somewhere else?

I'm just worried there might be other problems like a cracked block and/or heads. Not really sure what to ask for as I've never had to deal with this kind of thing before...

Believe it or not, this is a semi-common mistake on rebuilt Ford small blocks, especially for mechanics who build a lot of GM engines. It was most likely an honest mistake. I would show him what happened and let HIM suggest what should be done. He might just swap yours for another engine that's already done. If he simply suggests new head gaskets, ask for a warranty in case there's a crack. Also I'm not an expert on what happens when a block overheats. I used to race Datsun 280s and we had a blown head gasket. Replaced it at the track for the next race and had no oil pressure. Turns out the block cracked on an internal oil galley because of the overheating. I've had heads warp also. If it were mine, I'd demand an entire new rebuild with magnafluxing. After all, that's what you paid for in the first place, and you're totally inconvenienced by this.

 

[SDlivin]

as for the side that you haven't pulled, you may be able to tell if the gasket is on backwards without pulling the head. The 'front' part where it says front and usually has the part number stamped into it sticks out a little more then the rear part of the gasket.