• Welcome to ClassicBroncos! - You are currently viewing the forums as a GUEST. To take advantage of all the site features, please take a moment to register. It's fast, simple and absolutely free. So please join our community today!
    If you have problems registering or can't log into your account, please contact Admin.

Bump Steer, Tie-Rod Over and Trac Bar Riser

RonJones

Contributor
Full Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2001
Messages
328
I hooked up and trial fit the front suspension components for the 1st time following the frame-off on my WH 2.5” suspension-lifted ‘73. BCB heim joint tie-rod over and WH adjustable trac bar. Prior to this, same lift with stock tie-rod/pitman arm under gave pretty parallel trac bar and drag link. Not so anymore; see picture below. Once everything is final tightened, the alignment will be a little better since there’s about 3/4” more mesh once I final-tighten the pitman arm to the steering box shaft. I was thinking the WH trac bar riser might be just the ticket, but it’s instructions state “The track bar riser should not be used with less than a 3 1/2” suspension lift.”

https://s3.amazonaws.com/cdn.wildhorses4x4.com/downloads/WH/1233 07-23-18.pdf

Suggestions, plz?
 

Attachments

  • BA84BA21-E1BE-4CD4-A52E-BE250A7382B8.jpg
    BA84BA21-E1BE-4CD4-A52E-BE250A7382B8.jpg
    119.4 KB · Views: 302

MrT

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Messages
288
I just put on Duff's hd frame mount drop bracket. I am still putting everything together but I like this bracket . I am also running 3.5" of lift. My steering is almost identical to yours but diy out of 1.5" tubing.
 

68ford

Bronco Guru
Joined
Dec 26, 2004
Messages
2,710
You need a drop bracket at the frame and a riser on the axle by the looks of it. A riser alone that would be tall enough for you draglink angle would require limiting your suspension up travel drastically because the bracket will crash into the frame.
 

bronconut73

Bronco Guru
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,917
Are you still running a dropped pitman arm?
With a stock pitman arm your drag link upper pivot will be lined up with a stock upper track bar frame bracket.
With a dropped pitman arm your drag link upper pivot will line up with an aftermarket dropped track bar frame bracket.


Get the upper pivots parallel.

If you are running a track bar riser on your axle then you don't want the aftermarket track bar frame bracket.

Going TRO should bring your drag link lower pivot in line with the axle riser track bar lower bracket.


Clear as mud now right?

Sorry....words are not my friend today....
 

Jaybr

Contributor
Full Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2019
Messages
565
I’m running TOR with Duff drop bracket and stock pitman arm, 2.5” lift. Haven’t driven it yet but it lines up pretty well.

4b5d3222899124b82d76f33803777438.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
48,572
Hey Ron. With the TRO you're usually better off with a riser no matter what.
We recommend a 3.5 because that's giving it more room to clear whatever might be around, but we have many customers using them with 2.5" and no problems. But I would suggest not being shy of once you get the bolt location figured out, if there is any extra material you can cut/grind off the top for more clearance, that you do just that.
Just in case...

Of course, if you set it up and it looks like it'll clear all of your items with no trouble, then you're in business and don't even have to trim it down.
With your longer draglink, it looks for now at least like you have a really nice low angle on that bar. But it almost looks too, like you would want to use the lowermost hole on a riser AND still use some kind of a drop bracket on the upper pivot.
Just going by the large distance between pivot points at the upper end.

Any chance you can post up some more pics, particularly of the upper end of the linkages?

Thanks

Paul
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
48,572
I’m running TOR with Duff drop bracket and stock pitman arm, 2.5” lift. Haven’t driven it yet but it lines up pretty well.

Lines up very well in fact!
But have you turned it to the max both ways to be sure that your tie-rod does not contact the lower trackbar bolt/nut?
Or have you already cut yours short?

Paul
 
OP
OP
R

RonJones

Contributor
Full Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2001
Messages
328
Here’s a closer view of the upper linkage:
 

Attachments

  • 27CC1894-A3E4-4F71-91A4-EA644B31F80A.jpg
    27CC1894-A3E4-4F71-91A4-EA644B31F80A.jpg
    93.8 KB · Views: 199

Jaybr

Contributor
Full Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2019
Messages
565
Lines up very well in fact!
But have you turned it to the max both ways to be sure that your tie-rod does not contact the lower trackbar bolt/nut?
Or have you already cut yours short?

Paul


Yes! Used a thinner lock nut and shorter bolt in the lower track bar mount and trimmed the excess bolt off. Made very slight contact at full turn with steering stops all the way in, adjusted steering stops to correct.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
48,572
Here’s a closer view of the upper linkage:

Thanks Ron. And to get this out of the way first, is your engine installed? I see lots of plumbing, but have not noticed whether there is in fact the weight of the engine.
You can't adjust any steering or suspension linkage until the vehicle is at it's expected ride height. So without a hood, grille, bumper and most of all an engine, you might as well wait.
Either that or use some ratchet straps to compress the suspension until you achieve about 9.5" between the top of the axle tubes and the bottom of the frame rails in front.
Maybe you're already there(?) but it doesn't look like it yet. (but if you are, great!)

I still think you could use both a drop and a riser with your setup. A riser to get the lower trackbar pivot up to just above the tie-rod, and a short drop to bring the upper trackbar pivot down closer to the draglink end.
This is to not only get things parallel, but to less of a parallelogram and let you fit the riser with your lower lift.
This allows (I believe, but can't tell until it's mocked up) the easier fitment of a riser with just 2.5" of lift.

As it sits, a riser looks like it would be able to utilize the top hole and make things pretty much parallel and probably work pretty well. But if you are required to use the lower hole to make it fit, then you'll probably have to drop the upper end a little.

So yeah, your already-custom steering linkage is perhaps going to require some other bits be temporarily mocked up so you can see what physical limitations you might run into.

Paul
 
OP
OP
R

RonJones

Contributor
Full Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2001
Messages
328
Thx, Paul

is your engine installed?

Yessir. Canopy, hood, doors, seats not in yet. Several hundred pounds short of a full load, but I wanted to get a ballpark, in case I needed more (and it appears I do)

Does the 9.5” ratchet strap height the right number for the 2.5” suspension lift?

Just run the straps over the frame and under the radius arms near the coils?

I was trying to stay away from the drop bracket as I heard it causes problems with the TRO, but it does look like a riser-drop combo might be best. The shortest drop bracket I could find was 3.5” from JBG so I ordered that and the WH riser.

Shipping delays?
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
48,572
Does the 9.5” ratchet strap height the right number for the 2.5” suspension lift?

Yes. All based on the approximation of 7" front and 6" rear for stock height Broncos. Variations exist of course, but keep initial calculations to within a half-inch of that either way and you're usually good to go.

Just run the straps over the frame and under the radius arms near the coils?

Yep.

I was trying to stay away from the drop bracket as I heard it causes problems with the TRO, but it does look like a riser-drop combo might be best.

Still a possibility, which is why I mentioned a custom drop bracket, or an off-the-shelf model that's a little shorter. The Duff one that was shown in another image is a good start. But also companies like Ruff Stuff Specialties probably have something that would work.

You might still run afoul of what owners of lifts of more than 3.5" run into. And that's where you might have to custom make your own, or take an existing one and cut it down and drill some new holes in order to put the two bars as parallel to each other as possible, without having too much drop bracket that might interfere with the tie-rod.
Lots of leeway, but lots of possibility of rubbing with off-the-shelf parts too, which is why companies like us will err to the cautious side and recommend a little more lift.
It's not that we prefer selling you a 3.5 over a 2.5 inch lift. Just that some people do actually run into trouble with the shorter lift, so we have to mention it in basic terms.
But the fact that some members here have installed them on 2.5" lifts too, means it can be done.

But it would be nicer to hear from them directly, and see what they had to do (if anything) to guarantee the fit.
Oh, and the other reason is that we still think in terms of hard core four-wheeling. That means long wheel travel and using it to it's max sometimes. More than likely a Bronco that never sees a country road is not as likely to run into interference issues either.
So there's that...

The shortest drop bracket I could find was 3.5” from JBG so I ordered that and the WH riser.

Sounds good. And if it's possible, as mentioned don't hesitate to drill a new hole higher up in the drop bracket to facilitate a better geometry result.

Shipping delays?

Not so far. But a lot is still changing.
As of last week we had not been told to close, and for our business it's not as likely. But you never know. They're getting more and more adamant that people stay home unless their work is critical. And what with all the hoopla surrounding the whole Florida beach/Spring Break fiascos and the press they are getting, I would not be at all surprised to hear someone telling everybody to take their toys and go home!
I believe all the shipping companies are at full capacity, delivering everything and it's brother and then some, and cranking out more jobs than you can shake a stick at. But if they make the source shipper close, there won't be a whole lot the shipping companies can do about delivering parts that don't exist.
I can just see the Far Side cartoon now. UPS driver at the big metal roll-up door, leaning their forehead against it in a depressed manner, and banging weakly on it for someone to come out and play.

Guess we'll see Monday which way the wind blows.
Stay tuned.

Paul
 

MrT

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Messages
288
I want to say I have seen the drag link mounted on top of the pitman arm to match angles. I haven't done it or seen it in person, not sure if there issues doing it that way but something to consider before ordering a stock arm.
 

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
48,572
When done properly there is nothing wrong with that aspect. Just like anything custom though, you need to make sure that it works throughout the range of movement without binding and all the usual stuff.
Otherwise, it's fine and even some factories do it that way.

But I would not raise the draglink end, or shorten the pitman arm (looks pretty stock already) unless I had to. The lower/flatter the angle, the better.

Paul
 

garberz

Bronco Influencer
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
6,861
Loc.
Conejo Valley, Ca.
I want to say I have seen the drag link mounted on top of the pitman arm to match angles. I haven't done it or seen it in person, not sure if there issues doing it that way but something to consider before ordering a stock arm.

A 3/4” heim only articulates 13* from center, so it will be close to maxed out mounted properly under the Pittman arm. When mounted on top, the heim body will contact the Pitman arm before it reaches it’s 13* limit. And also you’d be adding more angle mounting it on top. So it’s beneficial to lessen the angle of the track bar. It’s orientation has no limits that will create binding. Certainly don’t want your steering linkage acting like a limit strap.

Mark
 

MrT

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2019
Messages
288
Speaking of that it appears they don't use a misalignment or safety spacer at the pitmant arm. Is that correct? If so why not?

Edit...never mind they do(Duff's)
 
OP
OP
R

RonJones

Contributor
Full Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2001
Messages
328
I installed the JBG Trac bar drop bracket (short of welding), and provisionally mounted the Trac Bar with a tie wrap. To my eye, it looks like putting the WH Riser Bracket and installing it with the Trac Bar in the bottom hole, should make a fairly parallel construct. Does that look about correct?

BTW, the JBG drop bracket was 3”, not 3.5” as advertised, and is an “innie”, not an “outie”, so it wasn’t necessary to try to remove the stock drop bar bolt (it wasn’t coming out, probably galvanized in place).
 

Attachments

  • E567B699-DFF4-4268-AA66-1CD5D8EB652E.jpeg
    E567B699-DFF4-4268-AA66-1CD5D8EB652E.jpeg
    122.3 KB · Views: 93
  • 3FF8817F-A7FC-401C-849C-63983D49F78D.jpeg
    3FF8817F-A7FC-401C-849C-63983D49F78D.jpeg
    126.1 KB · Views: 85

DirtDonk

Contributor
Bronco Guru
Joined
Nov 3, 2003
Messages
48,572
Hey Ron, much better!
I see that when the upper eye is inserted into the mount, it will be roughly equal in height to the draglink end? Does that sound about right?
Then, installing a riser will raise the lower trackbar eye/pivot point to about the level of the lower draglink end?
If so, I think you're right on the money.

I would have thought even just a 3" drop trackbar bracket might be too much, but it doesn't look like it. In fact it looks like the two brackets might just complement each other very well.
Good to not weld the drop bracket in until you're you're though!

Hey Rudy, welcome to classicbroncos. For what you're asking the best way is to start a new thread over in the "For Sale" forum.
Nothing wrong with posting it up in Chat either, to get an idea of cost. But to do either we're going to need to see a TON of pictures and willing descriptions from you. Then we're happy to help.
Posting here definitely gets a few more eyes on it sooner, but it also gets mixed up and lost in the tech discussion about steering.

Good luck with the sale. And definitely put up some pics over in For Sale or Chat.

Paul
 
Top