Burning Oil Troubleshooting

[DirtDonk]

Is that literally oil dripping off the #3 and #5 plugs and soaking the paper?

Paul

 

[crutch]

Is that literally oil dripping off the #3 and #5 plugs and soaking the paper?

Paul

They all had some oil on the threads when I removed them and it looks like its flowing towards the ends on those while sitting. The electrode and ceramic were dry when I pulled them.

 

[oldiron]

Looks like No.'s 2345 are burning oil (a lot). At 1500 miles you're past the point of it being normal for break-in. What type of oil did you use for break-in?
Is the inside of the intake oily? 13 in. Hg is low for a healthy engine. I'm wondering if you have the dreaded "torn intake manifold gasket". It would account for low vacuum and burning lots of oil. Google it..lots of info on it, fairly common too.
Greg

 

[crutch]

Looks like No.'s 2345 are burning oil (a lot). At 1500 miles you're past the point of it being normal for break-in. What type of oil did you use for break-in?
Is the inside of the intake oily? 13 in. Hg is low for a healthy engine. I'm wondering if you have the dreaded "torn intake manifold gasket". It would account for low vacuum and burning lots of oil. Google it..lots of info on it, fairly common too.
Greg

I used the Joe Gibbs BR oil for break in. I’m doing compression test right now and 1-5 are all showing 148-150 PSI. Had to take daughter to swim so will have to finish up tonight and report back. Thanks for all the help everyone.

Btw, not sure on brand of the intake manifold gasket.


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[crutch]

Just finished the compression test
1 - 150
2 - 150
3- 148
4 - 148
5 - 149
6 - 140
7 - 138
8 - 139

I don’t have equipment for leak down test right now but since these seem to be in range does it exclude the ring seals and valve seals?


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[crutch]

I’m not seeing any oil in the upper intake looking down the throttle body and doesn’t seem to be oil in the PCV hose.


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[73azbronco]

pull a valve cover get a photo.

 

[crutch]

pull a valve cover get a photo.

Valve cover has a nick and some scuffs, does this look like rockers are hitting cover?


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[DirtDonk]

I'm not sure about the straight lines on the long side in your pic, but that small arc shaped one on the far left sure looks like the edge of a rocker arm rubbing up against it.

Is the baffle just that metal piece with the single screw, or is that entire thing a plate? It's usually just that one bit, and it slips down between two rockers. But I couldn't tell for sure and those three other screws were kind of messing with the interpretation.
What do those three screws do?

Paul

 

[BOBS 2 68S]

I am chasing the same thing on my Blue Print crate long block. Talked to Blue print, was told to check plugs and run compression test. Plugs oil were oil fowled and compression test was 150-155 lb. Pulled intake ( fel-pro gaskets) gaskets showed oil leaking in to intake ports on heads. I replaced the gaskets and now miles will tell me if I got it fixed or not.

 

[73azbronco]

Hard to see, are the valve seals on the valves?

https://www.alexsparts.com/viton-va...1-32-x-562-oe-design-premium-quality-vss-288/

And that looks like rocker hitting valve cover, wth.

I have 1.6 rockers and had to use taller covers like these, did not pay that much for them btw. They also have much better baffles

https://shop.broncograveyard.com/Fo...FRA1ol88bGLYulY5Wu_CPncEUuMZmLCgaAul-EALw_wcB

 

[blubuckaroo]

In my experience, a leaking valve guide seal manifests itself with a cloud of white smoke right after a cold start. It usually doesn't burn much oil, but looks really bad.

Most real oil consumption problems with new motors is caused by an incorrectly installed oil control ring. In that case, you'll be burning oil even with good compression tests.

 

[1970 Palmer]

If you have a suspect area on the valve cover that looks like it might be rubbing, just go to the corresponding rocker arm and take a look. The blue anodizing on the rocker where it's hitting will come right off and show as silver aluminum. Look in the head valley area around the springs for any metal filings. That's always a telltale indicator.

 

[1970 Palmer]

In my experience, a leaking valve guide seal manifests itself with a cloud of white smoke right after a cold start. It usually doesn't burn much oil, but looks really bad.

Most real oil consumption problems with new motors is caused by an incorrectly installed oil control ring. In that case, you'll be burning oil even with good compression tests.

Absolutely correct. A bad oil ring will not show as low compression.

We had a batch of Suzuki GSXR sport bikes that had oil burning issues. Turned out that it was the height that the piston oil drain holes were drilled behind the ring lands. The hole just nicked the flat surface that the oil ring seated against.

I would take a "very size large" channel lock pliers and grab the top of each intake valve spring retainer. Hold the retainer firmly, and move the pliers in the same plane as the cam and crankshafts. What you trying to do is feel for and excessive valve guide play on any of the intake valves. It's a easy test with the covers already off. Your only concerned with the intakes.

 

[crutch]

I'm not sure about the straight lines on the long side in your pic, but that small arc shaped one on the far left sure looks like the edge of a rocker arm rubbing up against it.

Is the baffle just that metal piece with the single screw, or is that entire thing a plate? It's usually just that one bit, and it slips down between two rockers. But I couldn't tell for sure and those three other screws were kind of messing with the interpretation.
What do those three screws do?

Paul

That baffle does have two screws holding it down and seems really solid. Not sure about the 3 screws, perhaps thats just part of the molding.

 

[crutch]

In my experience, a leaking valve guide seal manifests itself with a cloud of white smoke right after a cold start. It usually doesn't burn much oil, but looks really bad.

Most real oil consumption problems with new motors is caused by an incorrectly installed oil control ring. In that case, you'll be burning oil even with good compression tests.

If this was the case, would the oil fouled spark plugs only show up in the cylinder that had a bad oil control ring?

Does the fact that there is oil on all the spark plugs to some degree imply that maybe its coming down through intake gasket?

 

[73azbronco]

Verify valve seals, when thats good, cheapest correction is then an intake gasket. After that, it gets big needing to pull motor and pistons. Talk to whom ever sold you the 347. They put it together wrong, they should be the ones to fix it. Yes, oil control rings can go on upside down, but if they messed that up, I would be suspect on every other thing they touched.

 

[crutch]

Verify valve seals, when thats good, cheapest correction is then an intake gasket. After that, it gets big needing to pull motor and pistons. Talk to whom ever sold you the 347. They put it together wrong, they should be the ones to fix it. Yes, oil control rings can go on upside down, but if they messed that up, I would be suspect on every other thing they touched.

Thanks for all the help! Unfortunately I've moved from where I had the engine built. Is a leak down test the next best step?

 

[73azbronco]

One or more rings might be upside down.


As it turns out, the second ring has a lot more to do with lubrication control than the “oil ring” beneath it. “The second ring is what scrapes the oil,”


http://blog.wiseco.com/2nd-ring-purpose-and-function-explained

 

[Master Chief]

Engine is a 1971 302 block stroked to 331 with COMP Cams Xtreme Energy 268H camshaft and GT40 heads with 1.6 roller rockers. Bottom end wears a windage tray and 7 quart Canton pan. Idle is rough and vacuum bounces rapidly between 11 and 14 inches.

2017: The first valve covers were baffled Bronco script with a stock PCV valve. My oil consumption was a quart every few hundred miles. Not good.

2018: I installed the tall Summit covers and do not remember a PCV grommet in them so I ran breathers in both. No oil consumption in this configuration but I eventually developed several oil leaks. Not good.

2020: Read about M/E Wagner and their DF-17 Dual Flow PCV Valve from a link posted in a thread on CB. I searched for a PCV grommet and found that Moroso p/n 68772 fits the 1.22 in. diameter hole of the Summit valve covers. I pulled the cover, removed the metal baffle, and installed the Moroso grommet. This grommet is about 1.25" deep with a slit at the bottom to create a baffle. Drove 200 miles with this and sucked up over two quarts of oil. Not good.

Making no other changes, I installed a Moroso Air-Oil Separator. Probably not really needed but I wanted to see how much and when the PCV was sucking up the oil. Idle was good but with 2000 RPM it sucked about 1/8 of a cup in five minutes. Not good.

M/E Wagner recommends 3/8" (.375) minimum clearance between the baffle and PCV valve. I pulled the valve cover back off, removed the Moroso grommet and reinstalled the metal plate baffle. I then cut the bottom inch off the Moroso grommet so there are the two lips (top and bottom) to hold it in place like a regular, non-baffled grommet. Bottom of the grommet to the baffle is .390". I used the 1/8" spacer provided by M/E Wagner so the valve sits flush with the grommet.

After proper tuning of the carb and M/E Wagner dual flow PCV valve, idle and 2000 rpm checks showed no oil consumption. 30 mile round trip test drive, split evenly between country road and turnpike, also showed no oil consumption. Finally! Problem solved.



Parts list:

M/E Wagner DF-17 Dual Flow PCV Valve
Moroso Air-Oil Separator (p/n 85531)
Moroso PCV grommet (p/n 68772)
Summit Racing® Diecast Aluminum Valve Covers (SUM-440406)