C4 and manual valve body?

[dodgepaul]

I'm looking for insight from folks who have installed a manual valve body on the C4's in their Broncos or other vehicles. Anybody have insight on the better or best valve bodies to use? Probably want to stay normal pattern, not a reverse pattern like the drag cars use. But I suppose I could if there is a reason to go with a reverse pattern over a normal. I saw one unit that shifted normally in drive and would hold 1st and 2nd gear. I assume it would also then go into either of those gears when shifted and not "Wait" until it's supposed to. Mine is a 70 and later C4. My truck is for the most part a normal weekend only driven rock crawler. Ideas? Thoughts? good or bad?

 

[bronccar]

Edones did it I believe

Sent from my SM-G920R6 using Tapatalk

 

[Broncobowsher]

Normal in drive and hold 1st or 2nd, that is pretty much normal operation for a C4. With the exception of the very early c4 valve body which 2nd was 2nd and 3rd just without 1st gear. Was a winter driving trick to reduce torque to the wheels to minimize tire spin.

Try driving around and manually shifting every single gear. After about half an hour the novility wears off.

You want ideas? Leave it alone, manually shift when there is a need to do so. Other times just use drive as normal.

 

[broncoman1972]

I had the art carr reverse manual in my C4. I liked the reverse patten because it had a natural feel going from reverse, thru neutral to 1st. Shifting down to 2nd and 3rd on accel then back up toward neutral on deceleration. Seems like it would be weird to have to shift all the way down to 1st to get going.

That being said, my vb was the racing version with no engine braking in 1st. It sucked on downhill stuff not having engine braking. There is a version, I think Wild Horses may carry it, that has braking in 1st. I now have a 4r70w reverse manual with braking in all gears and it much better with the braking.

Sent on the fly

 

[garberz]

Normal in drive and hold 1st or 2nd, that is pretty much normal operation for a C4. With the exception of the very early c4 valve body which 2nd was 2nd and 3rd just without 1st gear. Was a winter driving trick to reduce torque to the wheels to minimize tire spin.

Try driving around and manually shifting every single gear. After about half an hour the novility wears off.

You want ideas? Leave it alone, manually shift when there is a need to do so. Other times just use drive as normal.

This^^^
Unless you need the shorty adapter from A/A that deletes the governor, there's not a whole lot to gain from a manual valve body, especially true if you're looking for the forward pattern.

Mark

 

[DJs74]

If you really want to get rid of the automatic shifting features in your C4, you have a couple options. You can take your current VB out and install a shift kit (eliminating the automatic feature) or install a completely different full manual VB as you are asking about.
If you choose to tear into your current one, I would suggest that you make a few calls to folks like B&M, Transgo or TCI and let them know what you are wanting to do and they can recommend what you need to best suit your application.
If you choose to replace your current VB with a full manual, you can call the same previous mentioned companies to discuss... PLUS, I'll offer a couple additional companies below that can help with a VB replacement.

A while back, I had my C4 rebuilt (for competition use only) and had some VB issues after the build. One of the members on here gave me information for a company called Broader Performance Transmissions in Texas - I called them, discussed the workings of the VB and ended up ordering their forward pattern full manual VB, installed it and it worked flawlessly. I've since replaced it with another VB from a company called Dynamic Race Transmissions in Connecticut - only because after a season of racing, I realized I needed a transbrake and I could not convert the Broader VB myself. Dynamic is the only company I could find offering forward pattern manual VB w/transbrake (there are multiple offerings for the C4, manual, w/brake in reverse pattern though).

Phone / website / contacts names for Broader & Dynamic:

Broader Performance Transmissions - Texas
► (817) 599 9400
► http://www.broaderperformance.com
► contact: Jay

Dynamic Race Transmissions - Connecticut
► (203) 315 0138
► http://www.dynamicracingtrans.com
► contact: JR

Both companies are great to deal with and have a lot of knowledge on the C4s


DJs74

 

[dodgepaul]

Normal in drive and hold 1st or 2nd, that is pretty much normal operation for a C4. With the exception of the very early c4 valve body which 2nd was 2nd and 3rd just without 1st gear. Was a winter driving trick to reduce torque to the wheels to minimize tire spin.

Try driving around and manually shifting every single gear. After about half an hour the novility wears off.

You want ideas? Leave it alone, manually shift when there is a need to do so. Other times just use drive as normal.

Thanks but Thats what I have now and want to be able to hold 1st or 2nd gear at all speeds. Especially downhill braking with 1st gear. I dont want to have to wait on the trans to decide when to give me 1st, I want it now dammit, lol. I have manual VB's in my Mopar race cars but dont know the C4's like I do my 727's. In 727's it makes a huge difference who's VB one uses. So hopefully you folks can help me decide whose VB not to use.

 

[dodgepaul]

I had the art carr reverse manual in my C4. I liked the reverse patten because it had a natural feel going from reverse, thru neutral to 1st. Shifting down to 2nd and 3rd on accel then back up toward neutral on deceleration. Seems like it would be weird to have to shift all the way down to 1st to get going.

That being said, my vb was the racing version with no engine braking in 1st. It sucked on downhill stuff not having engine braking. There is a version, I think Wild Horses may carry it, that has braking in 1st. I now have a 4r70w reverse manual with braking in all gears and it much better with the braking.

Sent on the fly

Thanks, that will really help. I wasn't aware of that possibility. Braking in 1st gear is my highest priority here. One more thing on the list to watch for.

 

[dodgepaul]

If you really want to get rid of the automatic shifting features in your C4, you have a couple options. You can take your current VB out and install a shift kit (eliminating the automatic feature) or install a completely different full manual VB as you are asking about.
If you choose to tear into your current one, I would suggest that you make a few calls to folks like B&M, Transgo or TCI and let them know what you are wanting to do and they can recommend what you need to best suit your application.
If you choose to replace your current VB with a full manual, you can call the same previous mentioned companies to discuss... PLUS, I'll offer a couple additional companies below that can help with a VB replacement.

A while back, I had my C4 rebuilt (for competition use only) and had some VB issues after the build. One of the members on here gave me information for a company called Broader Performance Transmissions in Texas - I called them, discussed the workings of the VB and ended up ordering their forward pattern full manual VB, installed it and it worked flawlessly. I've since replaced it with another VB from a company called Dynamic Race Transmissions in Connecticut - only because after a season of racing, I realized I needed a transbrake and I could not convert the Broader VB myself. Dynamic is the only company I could find offering forward pattern manual VB w/transbrake (there are multiple offerings for the C4, manual, w/brake in reverse pattern though).

Phone / website / contacts names for Broader & Dynamic:

Broader Performance Transmissions - Texas
► (817) 599 9400
► http://www.broaderperformance.com
► contact: Jay

Dynamic Race Transmissions - Connecticut
► (203) 315 0138
► http://www.dynamicracingtrans.com
► contact: JR

Both companies are great to deal with and have a lot of knowledge on the C4s


DJs74

Lots of great info, this will give me a few places to start from. Thank You!

 

[5001craig]

I have a reverse manual valve body and I really like it. It's kinda like a manual without a clutch. Plus you get to select your converter which is like a gear change. And with a C4 I use just 1st and 2nd mostly unless on the road but I don't drive that fast. Pull it back from Park and 1st is 1st--like it seems it should be with a manual VB. Pull it back for 2nd and so on. Just seems normal to me.

I'd do this again in a heartbeat. It doesn't look like much from the outside but I really like what's inside.

And I like my Winters shifter.

Looking forward to installing my Winters shifter console from u10072 (Matt). ;D

 

[dodgepaul]

how did you get pics to load? Ive never been able to figure it out

 

[dodgepaul]

which VB did you install? Who made it?

 

[dodgepaul]

I have a reverse manual valve body and I really like it. It's kinda like a manual without a clutch. Plus you get to select your converter which is like a gear change. And with a C4 I use just 1st and 2nd mostly unless on the road but I don't drive that fast. Pull it back from Park and 1st is 1st--like it seems it should be with a manual VB. Pull it back for 2nd and so on. Just seems normal to me.

I'd do this again in a heartbeat. It doesn't look like much from the outside but I really like what's inside.

And I like my Winters shifter.

Looking forward to installing my Winters shifter console from u10072 (Matt). ;D

Which VB did you install? who made it?

 

[5001craig]

Which VB did you install? who made it?

I don't know. I bought it used and didn't touch it. Wish I knew more about it.

Holy cow you've got some toys!

 

[brewchief]

I ran a full manual reverse valve body in a C-4 for years, first was a winters and second one was built by a local builder. I always ran a 3000-3500ish convertor and it was a blast to drive. I swapped to a manual trans after breaking a C-4 for the 4th? time, I was simply tired of dumping money into it. I regretted going to a manual from day one and have a C-6/205 combo on the floor that will get rebuilt and a full manual reverse valve body before it gets swapped in.

 

[Skiddy]

Holy cow you've got some toys!

I know I was thinking the same thing the other day;D I think we need some pics

 

[Nothing Special]

I have an AOD with an Art Carr manual valve body sitting on my garage floor. It didn't work out well for me so I went back to a manual trans (now an NV3550).

Big thing, as already mentioned, is compression braking. Mine didn't have any in 1st or 2nd.

Mine had a standard shift pattern which has one big advantage for fourwheeling: you can't accidentally "downshift" from 1st to neutral. With a reverse shift pattern if you were climbing a hill in 1st and thought you were in 2nd you could bang it forward and end up in neutral, rolling backward down the hill out of control (worst case). It also has the slight advantage of being the more familiar pattern.

Other than that, I think I'd prefer a reverse pattern. Banging it back to 1st from reverse or park was kind of silly. And as has been said, I don't think it would be hard to get used to.

For what it's worth, when I went to the AOD / manual valve body I was looking for a transmission my wife could drive that would never shift when I didn't want it to, and would always shift when I did want it to. It was a lot of fun to drive, and if it had compression braking I might still have it. But my wife still wouldn't drive it, and the lack of compression braking, along with engine overheating, made me go back to a stick.

 

[dodgepaul]

I know I was thinking the same thing the other day;D I think we need some pics

If I knew how to post pics on the thread I'd be happy to. Mopar muscle is my pride and joy. But me and this Bronco have been buddies for 20+ years, lotsa war stories from all over. She's goin on her "4th gen" build (finally rolled her in Moab last spring) and I expect next year will bring more. Lil tweakin here and there, another day another dollar.
Anyone teach me how to post a pic?

 

[broncomatt]

For years I have run a forward full manual valve body, when some bolts pulled out I had to replace it. Had a hard time finding one in stock so I grabbed the reverse pattern so I could make the next event. It doesnt have compression braking in 1st, I really dont like this for crawling. Several calls to half a dozen company's I found out currently there is no compression braking in the reverse pattern. So I will be going with a new forward pattern.
There are a few out there, major brands I trust (TCI, Hughes, Cheeta)

 

[brewchief]

For years I have run a forward full manual valve body, when some bolts pulled out I had to replace it. Had a hard time finding one in stock so I grabbed the reverse pattern so I could make the next event. It doesnt have compression braking in 1st, I really dont like this for crawling. Several calls to half a dozen company's I found out currently there is no compression braking in the reverse pattern. So I will be going with a new forward pattern.
There are a few out there, major brands I trust (TCI, Hughes, Cheeta)

Broader performance has a reverse pattern with engine braking, http://www.broaderperformance.com/ford-c4/40-c4-reverse-pattern-manual-valve-body-with-brake.html

I've heard nothing but good about broader and plan on using one of their valve bodys when I do my C-6.