C4 Rebuild Time

[pcf_mark]

I just wrapped up my 3 speed to C4 swap and the transmission is toast. I had a 50/50 chance because it was used with no history but at least I got almost all the swap problems out of the way. Except the Lokar shifter which I think sucks for $200!

Clean fluid at the top of the full mark. In drive it will not move at all no matter how high you rev it. In reverse if you rev the engine it will slowly drift back. If I put it in 1st or 2nd manually it still does not move forward.

Time for a rebuild! I was looking at BulkPart.com because someone here made a recommendation. I have done a few other A/Ts in the past and ViperWolf provided the manual so I am going to get after it.

Here is what I plan to get, please let me know what else I should add:
Master kit - overhaul kit, friction plates, steels
Front and rear bands
Filter and gasket

Should I add a TransGo shift improver kit and/or follow the tech page on C4 durabilty improvements?

Thanks
Crazy guy taking out the trans he just put in...

 

[sprdv1]

I would do the shift kit, personally..!

bulk part & transtar as well are good options

 

[pcf_mark]

I was also going to add the pump bushing and tailshaft bushing. Anything else?

The rear band may be over kill because it does not really wear but with the junk floating in there who knows what it looks like!

Will the shift kit make it shift harsh is my concern? I had a B&M kit that made a trans shift brutal and my wife wants to drive this rig so that would be a no-no.

 

[garberz]

The Transgo kit will make it shift harder, but I don't think it's too harsh IMO. Instead of removing the small puck shaped disk in the valve body like the Trans go instructions say, you can drill a 1/16" hole through it for a softer 1-2 shift. you can adjust the vacuum modulator so it shifts a bit sooner also. A high RPM 1-2 shift really shifts hard.
Mark

 

[Viperwolf1]

Pan gasket comes with the kit. Bronco filter won't. Transgo kit has options for shift firmness. http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119632&highlight=bwoncohowie+specs

 

[73azbronco]

There are about 4 shift kits to choose, some remove the puck, others leave it and drill a hole, others change the springs and combination of above. I used the mildest one offered per the parts guy at transgo, it changed a bunch of springs and drilled one hole, can't remember which part number though, instructions were good, easy to follow.

Still waiting to feel how it works as I've been waiting now 90 days for my motor. Thanks Phoenix Engine rebuilders.

Recommend you swap the bands and buy the whole rebuild kit, for under $200, you can get all that. Bushings are another $30, you just need to have someone who can press them in, that cost me another $35. I have a press and crushed one, I didn't have the right size bushing tool.

recommend new Torq conv while your at it.

 

[pcf_mark]

M26006C overhaul kit $53.70
M26022 front band $10.94
N26024 rear nad $31.01
A26010D filter $3.62
26030B bushing kit $27.13
Shipping $13.49
Total $139.90

I picked up the Bronco filter - thank Viperwolf. I did not order a shift kit because I want to see what stock shifts like. I can add it later w/o a major hassle. Is there any way to inspect the torque converter? I cleaned it out with solvent before I put it in (the first time) and very little dirty fluid washed out.

Anything specific I should be checking for with the symptoms of no forward movement when I take the transmission apart? Or is the forward drum clutch plates worn or pump worn out?

 

[73azbronco]

a $53 overhaul kit, does it have all the seals? my guess ois that kit doesn't come with clutch plates or steels.

Again, that "very little dirty fluid" will gum up a valve body. I encourage you to take the TC to a tranny shop and have them check it out, it may be good bad or still dirty.

 

[jedblake]

Hey pcf, Looks like your set on doing it yourself but may I suggest:
$650 w/ converter and 12 month warranty is the going rate here in Vegas (you remove & replace) I went with the stock rebuild and no shift kit as I'm a DD, it shifts nice and firm in stock form. Runs great and it was done in less than a week. I almost tried it myself but for the cost of all the parts and my time its almost a push. Good luck and in my trans swap everyone said spend the $100 for the new converter, better safe than sorry.
jed

 

[Viperwolf1]

Anything specific I should be checking for with the symptoms of no forward movement when I take the transmission apart? Or is the forward drum clutch plates worn or pump worn out?

Toasted forward clutch plates/steels, clutch seals, bad rings on stator, bad pump. I'd say it needs a complete going through. It's better to take them apart before ordering parts because you almost always need something extra and sometimes you find something major broke (not just worn out).

 

[BwoncoHowie]

...Anything specific I should be checking for with the symptoms of no forward movement when I take the transmission apart? Or is the forward drum clutch plates worn or pump worn out?

Plugged filter, bad pump, If theres metal in the pan, check for stuck valves in the valve body. I agree with Viperwolf1

 

[pcf_mark]

Thanks fellas I'll take a lot of pictures as I take it apart and inspect things carefully. I suspect I did not order something I need and that is good advice about taking it apart first. Trying to plan ahead so I can maximize my garage time this weekend! (you know - after the kids go to bed and before they get up the next morning!)

 

[pcf_mark]

What fluid do you guys use during/after a rebuild? Stick with type F?

The kit includes plates and steels. I had to order the t-case to c4 seal from napa for $32 foloowing the advice on this board. I do not have it yet but it sounds like the right part versus the price (the part it "crossed over" to they had in stock was $1 and it was one lip).

 

[Viperwolf1]

I use type F.

 

[pcf_mark]

I am not sure how to post pics directly from my hard drive so here it goes with a description.

I carefully and completely disassembled my C4. Before disassembly I had .085 end play which is waaay beyond spec. I assumed that something was worn. Carefully checking and counting I only have 9 washers not 10. I can not figure out which one is missing because of the transition of pages in the manual. On page 17-05-12 at the bottom is a drawing with the washers 3 - 5. Is the washer on the back of input shell (#5) smooth on both sides? Flipping to the next page at the top is washer #6 which has tangs that go in slots on the reverse planet. If this is true then washer #5 rides on washer #6. In my case I only have washer #6. I can account for all washers 1-4 and 7-10. Anyone help???

I also discovered that the rear cooler line was completely plug with a paper/plastic like gunk wad. I could not force air into the passage with 120 psi from the compressor. After cleaning it all out it is clear now. I have not looked at the plates or pump yet but there was very little sludge inside with the exception of one of the servos had a lot. Could be the guy I bought it from took the pan off and gave it cleaning to make it more re-sellable...

 

[Viperwolf1]

#5 is captured between the input shell and the sun gear. It doesn't come in the washer kits and is smooth on both sides. You'd have to remove the sun gear to get the washer off.

Plugged return doesn't sound good if it was run that way. Check the rear case bushing behind the #9 washer for lots of wear. It gets oiling from the return. Servos always contain sludge.

 

[pcf_mark]

OK I accounted for all of them now. I did not get washers in my rebuild kit - is there a part number for washers or do I order by position? Or do you happen to know the correct thickness for them by any chance? A few of the tanged ones look worn but it is hard to tell b/c the babbit wears smooth.

Everything I have taken off from the pump to the plates looks great. Even the rear bushing looks good. I took a carefull look because I noticed it intersected with the plugged line. If the cooler line was plugged solid would this cause no drive or reverse because the fluid would not get back to the case? My cooler was leaking at one fitting and I think the internal pressure must have high because it was tight!

I have all the components rebuilt and they match specs and I am going to look into re-assembly today. I am wondering if how I measured end play was not steady (I used a caliper not a dial indicator) or if these washers are worn or if I need to change the select washers under the pump.

 

[Viperwolf1]

I always replace the thrust washers. Transtar #26200C has all but the #5 washer and includes the selective #1 and #2 washers to correctly set the endplay and float. When you put it back together leave the #1 (plastic) washer out in order to determine the correct #2 washer thickness. I like to set it as close to .008" as possible. After you determine the correct #2 then select the thickest #1 washer that prevents binding of the direct drum.

Plugged cooler line would not prevent clutch operation, just no cooling or lube to the rear case.

 

[pcf_mark]

Thanks for the tip on the washer kit. I will order it tomorrow. I have to get my hands on it to see if I can make sense of your description to set the end play. I may need a follow up description.

Any ideas as to what else I should check? I assumed the pump would be scored or filled with junk or the plates would be worn out. But everything looks good. I am starting to get concerned because I did not really find anything to explain why the Bronco would barely move even when I revved the engine in drive or reverse. I did not look into the valve body yet. From the pump through to the governor all checked out but I replaced and checked as I went.

 

[Viperwolf1]

How are the piston seals in the drums? Hard and cracked?

Are the steel rings around the stator unbroken?

What do the pump gears look like?