cage progress - updates

[malcolmzilla]

Carrier latch - 3/8" square tube and a 5/8" Grade 8 bolt thru sleeve in B hoop.
Passenger belt tabs tacked in, thanks to Lee for modelling.

 

[sstlaure]

Slayer Rules!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[malcolmzilla]

I'm more of an AC/DC guy myself...

I am not 100% satisfied with the belt position.

The laps seem a bit high on the hips, probably due to 2 things, the position of the B spreader being a ways behind the seats, making em come up at a shallow angle, and that they come up over the sides of the seat buckets (PRP daily driver), as opposed to through the seat sides like on the deeper seats.

But I think it will do...

 

[malcolmzilla]

A bit more tonight.

Drivers belt tabs and belt in. Not real happy with the belts, the laps not much I can do about them, due to the seats, but the shoulders I will probably add the tube in behind and anchor them there.

Working on the spare mount, designing it to fit a 37 but I plan to run 35's.

 

[TJK74]

Its coming along and looking great but I would agree with you on reworking those belts. Those shoulder mounts should go lower and mount back behind the seat at shoulder height and no more than 4" below that for safety compression reasons. Looks like you could run a bar from the center of your X to the side pillar or the B-hoop and get it with in spec. In reality the shoulder belt would then be able to keep you in and fully function if you were to ever tumble or end up on your lid. The way they are now allows for alot of upward movement do to there position of not holding you in over the shoulder as well as the high position of the lap belt wrapping around the seat sides instead of holding you down and in the seat would ride up the seat and in a front impact give you one hell of a gut check and possible internal injury and allow you to submarine in the seat.

http://corner-carvers.com/wiki/index.php?Notes+on+Race+Car+Harnesses

I understand the problem you have with the lap belts, the seats and the way they mount. What about possibly tieing them in to the cage with seat mounts or if your opposed to that for seat height reason then making an external seat mount and spreader than would mount around the seat base and allow you to mount the lap belt tabs in more of a downward pull location to get the lap belt across your legs and hips? Hope none of what i have stated above is taken the wrong way. Not trying to ridicule your set up. Just offering some suggestions. I think your cage is sweet and when finally done will be fully functional one of a kind.

Trevor

 

[broncow72]

Why is Pauly Shore sitting in your bronco?;D

 

[malcolmzilla]

Thanks for the feedback guys, I do appreciate it. TJK, thats a great link - it finally explains WHY the belts need be mounted as in the instructions, the reasons I suspected but couldn't get an answer for...

Just when I thought I was getting close to being done....

Last night I decided that I would add the tube to anchor the shoulder belts at shoulder height.

Laps I am still trying to come up with a better plan...

Problems are:

- mounting the laps to the cage B hoop leads to them coming across at a shallow angle and riding up, and possibly submarining or leading to an abdominal injury in an accident, as well as not holding you in very well in a roll over...
- the PRP daily driver seats sides kinda hold the belts up off the lap and hips for skinnier folks, I think the deeper suspension seats pass the harness thru the sides - is anyone else running the PRP daily drivers - i'm not convinced moving the lap belts forward will completely solve this issue? At any rate having the lap belt more on the thigh and hips is necessary...

I don't really want to do a full seat frame off the cage for a couple of reasons...

Primary is egress, it is to be a daily driver - don't want door sill spreaders to climb over...

Secondarily want to keep the seat height low... no tilt column in the budget... and maintain max head room - I'm not a tall guy but some room to the overhead spreaders is nice, esp. in a rollover

So I could fab some extensions off the B to bring the laps forward - they'd look gross though - just tube stubs...

Do not want to mount the lap belts to the floorpan.

Thus I think a seat frame on the cage is the only solution? Ideas? Might be able to address the seat height issue by recessing the seats and using 1.25" tube? I have the dies for 1", 1.25", 1.75" and can borrow 1.5" dies I think but maybe just do 1.75" then...

Thanks again. Post up pics of your seat frames if ya got 'em.

 

[sstlaure]

Here's my set-up, seats and belts attach to cage

These were the best pics I have.

The first one shows all 4 seat tabs and my crotch strap loop, second gives you an idea of how the tabs are for the seatbelts (shoulder mounts for the front seats are on the inboard sides of the rear shock towers at shoulder height (placed a little far back), 3rd seat top belt mount is on the x-tube going across the back of the cage.

I could take more specific pics if you'd like them...

 

[TJK74]

Well i think if you can deal with the added height issue the best way would be to mount the seats and belts to the cage. I have seen other use 1-1.25" tube to cut down on the height issue. This would give you plenty of room to properly mount the tabs where they need to be to work with your seats.
As far as the getting in and out goes. My previous cage was a basic 6 point with no door spreader and my new one has the spreader and the seat kit. At first I was aware of if being there and the slight added height but now I easily hope in and out with out even bothering to think about it being there and where the seat sit now feels totally normal. In my own opinion it really doesn't hinder getting in and out one bit and after a few times in and out you wont even notice it;D
I'm sure you have seen them before but here are a few pics of my set up.

 

[malcolmzilla]

Thanks for th ideas guys!

I just remembered I have 20' of 1.25" .120 wall erw onhand...

TJK, could you get me the angles of and distance between your bends on your door spreaders? Imitation is flattery!

I guess I know what the next few nights will entail...:-X Thinking I can use the B hoop floor spreader as the rear seat crossbar, add the front one, mount the seats as low as possible using angle, and 1.25" tube between the cross bars so the belts are across the lap and at the recomended 80-90 degrees...

Maybe also see if an local upholstery guy can slot the PRP's for lap belts without compromising the suspension... sending 'em back ain't an option, it was big $ to get them up here...%)

 

[TJK74]

That idea sounds like it would be just the ticket;D If you could get the seats slotted that would make it all the better and let the lap belts hold you nice and snug in the seat as well.

Not exactly clear on what measurements your looking for but i can measure this evening when I get home for you if you let me know

 

[malcolmzilla]

TJK,

Could I get distance between bends "A" and the angle of the bend "B"? That will save me some time and possibly some tube. Thanks! ;D

Also, theres a dude in Colorado with an bright orange bronco that re-built his own cage, can't recall his handle... anyone? If I recall he put an S bend on the front crossbar...

TIA

 

[TJK74]

TJK,

Could I get distance between bends "A" and the angle of the bend "B"? That will save me some time and possibly some tube. Thanks! ;D

Also, theres a dude in Colorado with an bright orange bronco that re-built his own cage, can't recall his handle... anyone? If I recall he put an S bend on the front crossbar...

TIA

Ok no problem I'll measure it out when I get home

 

[TJK74]

Here you go!
Steve is the one with the bronco with the S bend in the cage
There is a pic if it a little ways down on this thread.
http://classicbroncos.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79576

Trevor

 

[TJK74]

Ok I measured and it is a 40 degree bend and from center of the bend to the center of bend is 7" and it is 1.5" tube if that helps at all.

Trevor

 

[malcolmzilla]

Thanks Trevor - that gives me a good starting point!

 

[malcolmzilla]

Bent a test one fromm scrap, then the passenger one.
1.75"... left room to TIG it and the footplate.
Angled the notches as the A pillar is a bit more inboard than the B due to the A going thru the dash.

 

[TJK74]

Looking good. That speader came out nice. What are your plans for mounting the seats? Were you going to mount them to and drop them down/recess them into the seat bars or mount the seats to the floor?
Was just thinking that they might be sitting a bit high if you were planning to surface mount them across the seat bars with the way your spreader sis set up off of the base plates.
Here are a few pics of mine. The door bars actually rest down at the base plate and have about 1/2" space between them and where they run along the floor pan.

 

[malcolmzilla]

Trevor,

After the test bend I considered trying to get it in tighter to the floor with a deeper bends and less space between them, but then I realized that we wouldn't be able to get the TIG torch in between the spreader and footplate if I fit it too tight... A consistent reminder from my brother who is doing the 100 TIG welds.. And where it lands on the B hoop it makes a nice node...

But I will check and see how much more room I get by dropping them and welding them to the floor plate.

I will recess the seat mounts somehow... Either by bending the cross bars at the ends a bit or dropping the seat mounting points deeper... play it by ear...

From my overhead and dash spreaders I know that 16 degrees will get me one tube diameter off using 1.75", so around 30 degrees should drop me just over 3" which will get the seats close to the floor... So if I cope angle to sit on the tube and mount it facing down I should be in the ballpark.

If I recall I also put a couple inches of drop front to rear in the seat mounts I built for the floorpan, to get the seats feeling "right". So I might do that with the angle seat brackets, or by not bending the front crossbar.

I am trying to re-use the factory sliders for the drivers, that complicates things a bit, but I am cheap where I have existing parts that work I recycle 'em.

 

[TJK74]

Even if the spreaders are close to the base plate you can usually get at least 90% of the tube welded up the small unwelded spot toward the bottom at the base plate is nothing to worry about and will still be way more than strong enough.
You might also want to look into these sliders from summit. I was going to put them in mine but then decided to hard mount my seat since I hadn't moved my seat any way in the last 15 years. They are $26 a piece double locking NHRA approved. Part # G-1153